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Fuselage #30 rivets

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JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:39 am Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

Hi Guys



There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed



Regards



John

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

On 5/22/2016 5:39 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Guys



 There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed



 Regards



 John


	


I'm building a -7 (same fuselage),  & can't figure out which area you're 

talking about.  Having said that, I'm not an aero engineer, so I try not 

to second guess the designer (who, hopefully, is) if the area is 

structural. Perhaps the cover you're talking about is required to 

complete an area that's structurally significant.



Charlie

gyoung

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:18 am Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason.



Greg Young



--

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets

Charlie



Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: 



https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the  copyright owner)



John

dickseiders(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 10:57 am Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

Read Greg young's answer again.

Dick seiders



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 22, 2016, at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Charlie

 

 Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is: 

 

 https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the  copyright owner)

 

 John

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456447#456447

halbenjamin101(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

Greg is right on. Besides, if you build it per Van's instructions that is one thing less to worry about as you're about to advance the throttle on your first flight!

Hal Benjamin

RV-4 Flying

Long Island, NY

218 Hours 



Sent from my iPad



[quote] On May 22, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "bigdog(at)bentwing.com" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 The short answer is yes. Van is a minimalist. His designs do not include anything he doesn't believe is needed. The RV's also use mostly -3 rivets so when they use -4's it's for a reason.

 

 Greg Young

 

 --

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets

Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected



John

HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

Van is not known for an excessive use of anything.  If the plans call for it, do it!



Harry Crosby



RV-6 N16CX, 1365 hours.



From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>

To: "RV-List" <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:39:39 AM

Subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>

Hi Guys

There seems to be excessive use of #30 rivets for the fuselage (-9) internals, does it really need them, example: tunnel cover 16x 1/8inch rivets listed

Regards

John

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456436#456436

                -Matt Dralle, List ==========

jsflyrv(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

I think you took Greg's answer in the wrong way. Van's airplanes ARE 

over engineered.



JOHN TIPTON wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Van is a 'minimalist' - I thought his planes were over engineered (bullet proof) - but I stand corrected



 John





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456456#456456

vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

Van's designs are "well engineered".  Some things like the original spar were over engineered.  Other areas were maybe a little light and prone to cracking but they have been corrected as the designs matured.

   

  After all of the things we have put Van's planes thru over the years I think it is safe to say that they have stood the test of time, so I would recommend building per plans.  Small downside, large upside.

   

  -GV

   

   

  --

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Fuselage #30 rivets

I agree



John

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>

 

 Charlie

 

 Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

 

 https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the  copyright owner)

 

 John

 



	
Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)

Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane?

Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox.

Charlie

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:31 pm Post subject: Fuselage #30 rivets

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:33 PM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>

 

 Charlie

 

 Can't imagine you don't know what the tunnel cover is:

 

 https://buildaplane.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/4-f-741b-center-tunnel-cover-fabricated-and-ready-to-drill.jpg. (Full acknowledgement to the  copyright owner)

 

 John

 



	
Thought that might be what you were talking about, but wasn't sure. (Had to go find mine; it's been a while since I built it.)

Look at what it's built of, and what it's expected to withstand in normal use. That's pretty heavy Z channel for a 'cover,' no? Why not use .030 sheet instead of extruded Z stock, & bend it up out of one piece? But what happens when your 200 lb passenger plants their foot on it and pushes off, exiting the plane?

Van is a minimalist, *and* the planes are over-built. I'm sure you can work out the paradox.

Charlie





 	


Should have added (or maybe led with), My kit didn't come with any universal head 3/32 rivets. Maybe the engineer decided that 1/8 round heads (already in the kit) would be fine and avoid the need to dimple the top piece & countersink the Z channels.

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