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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

Guys,



How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?



Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?



Do not archive. 



Sent from my iPhone

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

I keep the sump between 9 and 9 1/2 quarts.  That seems to be about right for not blowing out the breather.



I also have a air/oil separator on the breather line and collect that oil in a small container (I don't return it to the engine).  Every oil change I have a few ounces in the container.  It is not much, but a few ounces on the belly can make a big mess.



Carl



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 26, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Guys,

 

 How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?

 

 Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?

 

 Do not archive. 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

I have seen some blow it out quickly down under 8 Qts, and I have seen others hold 9.5-10 Qts. I can't explain. I can just describe. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc. 

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 26, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Guys,

 

 How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?

 

 Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?

 

 Do not archive. 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

When I kept losing oil quickly at 8qts the engine builder told me to let it go until it stabilized. Consistently anything more than 6qts it is lost quickly than stays at 6qts for a few hours before slowwwwly going lower.  

Many run 8-10qts, that would never work for me. Have an old narrow deck rebuilt with Eci cylinders so mine is going to be different than newer engines. In the end start at 10qts and let it go until your not seeing oil burn out quickly.  Once stabilized than add Â½ quart and see where it stops. 

  

  

   

From: Flysrv10 (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)

 Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 6:36 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Oil capacity 

 

  

  --> RV10-List message posted by: Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>

 

 Guys,

 

 How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?

 

 Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?

 

 Do not archive. 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

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Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 209
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:43 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

I put in 10 at the oil change, then add a quart around 8. Â 9 seems to be my sweet spot.Â  I let it go a little below 8 if I'm coming up on the oil change.



The D4A5 holds 12.Â  Other models might be different.

--Dave

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 6:32 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Guys,

 

 How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?

 

 Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?

 

 Do not archive.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

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 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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--Dave
KWVI

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: Oil capacity

Carl,

Which air/oil separator do you have?

I seem to only keep 6 QTS without throwing it overboard. Yesterday I had a fuel stop in Austin area where the temps on the ramp wee 98 deg. The engine was heat soaked already and I had serious oil temp limitations on climb out. 

I am wondering if installing an air/oil separator and increasing the the engine oil might improve things.

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 26, 2016, at 7:59 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 I keep the sump between 9 and 9 1/2 quarts.  That seems to be about right for not blowing out the breather.

 I also have a air/oil separator on the breather line and collect that oil in a small container (I don't return it to the engine).  Every oil change I have a few ounces in the container.  It is not much, but a few ounces on the belly can make a big mess.

 Carl

> On May 26, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Guys,

> 

> How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?

> 

> Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?

> 

> Do not archive. 

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:50 am Post subject: Oil capacity

Mine likes it less than 8.Â  I add 9 at the oil change and then add a quarter between 6-7 if needed before the next oil change.

 

Rene'

801-721-6080

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Saylor

Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 11:40 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oil capacity



 

I put in 10 at the oil change, then add a quart around 8.  9 seems to be my sweet spot.  I let it go a little below 8 if I'm coming up on the oil change.

 



The D4A5 holds 12.  Other models might be different.

 



--Dave

 

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 6:32 PM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)>



Guys,



How many QTS of oil can you hold in your IO540 without spitting it overboard?



Do you have a crankcase vent recovery canister (not sure what they are called)?



Do not archive.



Sent from my iPhone



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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Oil capacity

I've been adding 9qt+CamGuard, it goes down quickly to 8.5 where the consumption stabilizes. I refill it at 7.5. Stock D4A5.



I always wondered does the oil temp creep up when you get down into the 6s?



Lenny

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: Oil capacity

I have done a little testing there and I cannot see a difference.  I also

went to straight 100 weight during the summer and did not note a difference.

Hot days and heat soaked engine always results in much slower climbs because

of oil and cylinder head temps.



Rene'

801-721-6080



--

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:20 am Post subject: Oil capacity

I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

quarts - somewhat.  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

mount.



Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

drip on an exhaust pipe?



I'm using this separator:

http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.



Carl



--

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: Oil capacity

Oil/ air is a nice (cleaner) feature and antisplataero is first rate in his products, but you shouldnâ€™t need to opt for this if the engine doesnâ€™t want more than 6qts, I think maybe higher oil pressure from recycling versus releasing it out, maybe not a real issue, but you should be able to keep temps down with 6qts. I would still consider the air/oil to keep the belly clean but not to resolve the temps.

What (consistent) oil temps are you seeing 245F? 220? 200?, is this in climb and cruise? I am assuming your CHTâ€™s are close to or above 400F and the oil is having a tough time with the climb, so I decrease angle and rate by reducing power and leaning (but that only happened 2 times in the last 400 hours) and that helps- but what about after the climb in cruise? Temps should be 200F or lower.

165-220 is the range for normal use, are you in that range? 





From: Carl Froehlich

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:23 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oil capacity

-- RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net



I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

quarts - somewhat.Â  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

mount.



Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

drip on an exhaust pipe?



I'm using this separator:

http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.



Carl



--

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Oil capacity

IO-540 V4A5 with an 8 qt. capacity.  No problems with high oil temps and I add oil when it drops to 7 quarts.

From: "P Reid" <rv10flyer(at)live.com>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 2:21:41 PM

Subject: RE: Oil capacity

--> RV10-List message posted by: P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com>

Oil/ air is a nice (cleaner) feature and antisplataero is first rate in his products, but you shouldnâ€™t need to opt for this if the engine doesnâ€™t want more than 6qts, I think maybe higher oil pressure from recycling versus releasing it out, maybe not a real issue, but you should be able to keep temps down with 6qts. I would still consider the air/oil to keep the belly clean but not to resolve the temps.

What (consistent) oil temps are you seeing 245F? 220? 200?, is this in climb and cruise? I am assuming your CHTâ€™s are close to or above 400F and the oil is having a tough time with the climb, so I decrease angle and rate by reducing power and leaning (but that only happened 2 times in the last 400 hours) and that helps- but what about after the climb in cruise? Temps should be 200F or lower.

165-220 is the range for normal use, are you in that range? 

From: Carl Froehlich

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:23 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oil capacity

-- RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net

I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

quarts - somewhat.  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

mount.

Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

drip on an exhaust pipe?

I'm using this separator:

http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.

Carl

--

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:48 am Post subject: Oil capacity

Carl,



Yes to all your questions. I guess I should also be looking into a different oil cooler. Any suggestions?



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On May 27, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

 quarts - somewhat.  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

 guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

 mount.

 

 Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

 drip on an exhaust pipe?

 

 I'm using this separator:

 http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

 works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.

 

 Carl

 

 --

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: Oil capacity

So my oil temp went to 223 during climb and I decreased AOA to lower the temps. I found that I had to climb at 300'/min to bring the oil temp to 213. 



The CHT goes up to 425 but I can control that a little better with richer fuel. 

  

At cruise, I do really well. Around 170-180 for oil and 360 for CHT. 



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On May 27, 2016, at 12:21 PM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Oil/ air is a nice (cleaner) feature and antisplataero is first rate in his products, but you shouldnâ€™t need to opt for this if the engine doesnâ€™t want more than 6qts, I think maybe higher oil pressure from recycling versus releasing it out, maybe not a real issue, but you should be able to keep temps down with 6qts. I would still consider the air/oil to keep the belly clean but not to resolve the temps.

 

 

 What (consistent) oil temps are you seeing 245F? 220? 200?, is this in climb and cruise? I am assuming your CHTâ€™s are close to or above 400F and the oil is having a tough time with the climb, so I decrease angle and rate by reducing power and leaning (but that only happened 2 times in the last 400 hours) and that helps- but what about after the climb in cruise? Temps should be 200F or lower.

 165-220 is the range for normal use, are you in that range? 

 

 

 

 

 From: Carl Froehlich

 Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:23 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oil capacity

 

 

 

 

 

 

 -- RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net

 

 I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

 quarts - somewhat.  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

 guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

 mount.

 

 Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

 drip on an exhaust pipe?

 

 I'm using this separator:

 http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

 works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.

 

 Carl

 

 --

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

I live in AZ and CHT and Oil Temps had been a problem since day1. (compounded by my choice to install the same james plenum) I invested time and $'s into louvers, upgraded oil coolers, etc. For me the ultimate solution was to Â fabricate a ram air intake that attached to the lower cowl. In my case I have a 3 bld prop and the lower cowl needs to have the gear leg slot elongated in order tog get the lower cowl off. There is a slot cover that attaches with nutplates to close the slot when the lower cowl is in place. The slot cover was the perfect platform to support the ram air intake. I made a 3" Â fiberglass tube and cut an opening in the slot cover. I used micro balloons to fair the tube to the slot cover. I closed off the oil cooler air intake at the #6 cly and prosealed and riveted a cover in place of the old hole. I used some foam blocks and carved a ~ 90 deg elbow that attaches to the top of the oil cooler intake. the elbow reduces the intake diameter to 3". I coupled the ram air cover plate to the oil cooler elbow using 3" scat tube.Â  Oil Temps dropped 20-30 degs and #6 CHT is now within 5 degs of all other cyls. The stock Van's design IMO is marginal at best. The oil cooler needs its own air supply and not bleed air from the cowl/plenum.

anything over 8 qts gets sent thru the breather, took me a long time get comfortable with this, but oild cunsumption is MUCH better. I add a qt (at) 7.

Deems

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)>

 Carl,

 Yes to all your questions. I guess I should also be looking into a different oil cooler. Any suggestions?

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On May 27, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>

 >

 > I suspect 9 quarts would help mitigate your oil temp issue compared to six

 > quarts - somewhat.Â  If you are having continued oil temp issues I'd also

 > guess you are using the stock Van's oil cooler and firewall oil cooler

 > mount.

 >

 > Do you loop the crankcase breather hose up the firewall before going down to

 > drip on an exhaust pipe?

 >

 > I'm using this separator:

 > http://antisplataero.com/products/the-asa-oil-separator I cannot tell you it

 > works any better than other options, but I'm happy with it.

 >

 > Carl

 >

 > --

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

Perhaps you need to gather more data and decide if you have a problem or not.  Assuming you started off well heat soaked and that you are climbing with both high temperature and humidity, these numbers are not that far out.  Your 300 fpm climb however is way low - perhaps that was an anomaly in data collection.



I climb at 130 kts IAS after the initial takeoff to promote cooling (using a James cowl and plenum that I am very happy to have).  At gross this provides perhaps 800 fpm on a hot day.  I'm typically watching CHT as I've never had oil temps above 220 or so.  After 6000' or so I'll start leaning to keep EGTs up at about what they started with.  After 6000' CHTs start to come down as engine power is going down with altitude.



In cruise on a hot day I have the oil cooler door half shut to keep oil temp above 180.  CHTs are in the 340 to 360 range.



If after you do your flight data analysis you still think you have an oil cooling problem, you can look at what others have done.  I'm using the Airflow System 2006X cooler (same dimensions as the Van's 20006A cooler).  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/xseriesOilCooler.php



The attached photos show how I mounted the cooler.  Not shown is a bracket on the forward end of the cooler attaching it to the engine mount with an Adel clamp.



Carl



--

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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

Thanks for the pics.  The original cooler mounting spot just dumps the 

hot air into a really dead air spot which makes me wonder just how much 

differential air pressure is across the cooler.  I hope to find out if I 

have a problem early next year.

Linn



On 5/27/2016 5:04 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:

[quote] Perhaps you need to gather more data and decide if you have a problem or not.  Assuming you started off well heat soaked and that you are climbing with both high temperature and humidity, these numbers are not that far out.  Your 300 fpm climb however is way low - perhaps that was an anomaly in data collection.



 I climb at 130 kts IAS after the initial takeoff to promote cooling (using a James cowl and plenum that I am very happy to have).  At gross this provides perhaps 800 fpm on a hot day.  I'm typically watching CHT as I've never had oil temps above 220 or so.  After 6000' or so I'll start leaning to keep EGTs up at about what they started with.  After 6000' CHTs start to come down as engine power is going down with altitude.



 In cruise on a hot day I have the oil cooler door half shut to keep oil temp above 180.  CHTs are in the 340 to 360 range.



 If after you do your flight data analysis you still think you have an oil cooling problem, you can look at what others have done.  I'm using the Airflow System 2006X cooler (same dimensions as the Van's 20006A cooler).  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/xseriesOilCooler.php



 The attached photos show how I mounted the cooler.  Not shown is a bracket on the forward end of the cooler attaching it to the engine mount with an Adel clamp.



 Carl



 --

kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:05 pm Post subject: Oil capacity

Unless you're low enough on oil to lose oil pressure, oil quantity does not 

have an appreciable impact on oil temperature.  More oil does not result in 

more cooling capacity. Cooling capacity is the a function of the cylinder 

fins, the oil cooler, and the surface of the engine block, accessory case, 

and sump. All of those reject heat into an airstream which has a flow rate 

and a delta T(emperature).  Adding oil doesn't change the mass flow through 

the oil cooler or the surface area which is radiating heat, nor does it 

change anything about the airstream.

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: Oil capacity

I want to thank everyone for responding to my issue.  Lots of good information that will help me decide what to do, if anything. 



On my return trip next week, I am going to continue the climb to see if I reach 245 deg oil temp. Hopefully it will stabilize somewhere below 245. If I find something useful, I will share with the group. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 27, 2016, at 8:04 PM, <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Unless you're low enough on oil to lose oil pressure, oil quantity does not have an appreciable impact on oil temperature.  More oil does not result in more cooling capacity. Cooling capacity is the a function of the cylinder fins, the oil cooler, and the surface of the engine block, accessory case, and sump. All of those reject heat into an airstream which has a flow rate and a delta T(emperature).  Adding oil doesn't change the mass flow through the oil cooler or the surface area which is radiating heat, nor does it change anything about the airstream.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:39 am Post subject: Oil capacity

I would recommend against allowing oil temp to climb above 225. Yes, 

Lycoming red line is 245. You do not want to operate anywhere near the 

red line, as oil begins breaking down much above that, and the oil temp 

probe is at the coolest point in the whole oil system, in the return 

line from the oil cooler.

Take action via increased airspeed and/or reduced power as soon as oil 

temp goes above 220. It will take time for it to come down. It may in 

fact increase some before it starts to come down.

Kelly

On 5/28/2016 7:29 AM, Flysrv10 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I want to thank everyone for responding to my issue.  Lots of good information that will help me decide what to do, if anything.

 On my return trip next week, I am going to continue the climb to see if I reach 245 deg oil temp. Hopefully it will stabilize somewhere below 245. If I find something useful, I will share with the group.

 Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2016, at 8:04 PM, <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Unless you're low enough on oil to lose oil pressure, oil quantity does not have an appreciable impact on oil temperature.  More oil does not result in more cooling capacity. Cooling capacity is the a function of the cylinder fins, the oil cooler, and the surface of the engine block, accessory case, and sump. All of those reject heat into an airstream which has a flow rate and a delta T(emperature).  Adding oil doesn't change the mass flow through the oil cooler or the surface area which is radiating heat, nor does it change anything about the airstream.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

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