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Rain passing through fuel cap

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Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Hi all,



After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator!



So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received!

dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

There is a rubber sealing ring on my cap.

A Mono is tail down when you check for water in drains so there is no access to the water when checking. 

After flight with tail up it finds the water hence Gascolator.

Dave



Dave Park

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 28 Jul 2016, at 17:49, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi all,

 

 After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator!

 

 So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830

cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

A circle of sign vinyl over the cap when left outside. Not very fancy but it works. It does leave some sticky residue but a little fuel on a cloth cleans it up. I keep a few in my flight bag. 



Kevin Challis 

G ODJG 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 28 Jul 2016, at 18:49, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi all,

 

 After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator!

 

 So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830

dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Europa do a cover that covers to rear of filler

Dave



Dave Park

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 28 Jul 2016, at 19:36, Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 A circle of sign vinyl over the cap when left outside. Not very fancy but it works. It does leave some sticky residue but a little fuel on a cloth cleans it up. I keep a few in my flight bag. 

 

 Kevin Challis 

 G ODJG 

 

 

 

> On 28 Jul 2016, at 18:49, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Hi all,

> 

> After a couple of days parked outside in fairly rainy conditions, a check of the useless water drains proved negative, however after the following flight I got 2/3rds of a sample tube full of water from the gascolator (and still nothing from the water drains). Next flight was 2 hrs from Le Touquet to Barton; gascolator yielded a clear sample.... of 100% water.... and then a further 2/3rds water sample. I'm impressed with the capacity of the Andair gascolator!

> 

> So; my fuel cap clearly lets water into the tank. There doesn't appear to be a rubber seal of any sort, and I've adjusted the backnut to ensure it fastens tightly, but there must be a better solution? Any suggestions gratefully received!

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458830#458830

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Hi!all,

I have had a similar experience with water in the fuel tank especially when

parked outside in continuous rain. My investigations discovered a

discrepancy between differing cap diameters and filler necks. I recommend

checks be carried out on your pairs.

AS an added precaution I apply electricians tape over the entire cap and

have had no incidents since.

The water drain pick up pipe end needs to be at the rear edges of the fuel

tank for monowheel tanks ( unless you do a water check with the tail held

high . Or the front edges of the tank for a trike standing on level ground.)

I too have been very impressed with the Andair mini gascolators and have one

on each tank outlet.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG.



--

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap

All good info, thanks.



I was debating covering the opening with cling film, and then applying a bead of high modulus sikaflex around the mating faces of the tank cap, then loosely fitting it in position before it sets. Theory being that it will make a fuel proof rubber seal that will remain on the cap and not adhere to the airframe as it sets.



I'm slightly concerned about the risk of sikaflex'ing my fuel cap in though...

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap

Thanks again for all the info; I spoke to Karen at Europa today, and received a helpful email off-list telling me that there should be an o-ring. I've ordered a new cap for a fairly reasonable £26.

cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Mine fitted fine until I was rushing one day and left it off !!!!!! 



The new one from Europa has never fitted very well, is difficult to remove and doesn't seal. 



Kevin Challis 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 29 Jul 2016, at 20:11, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks again for all the info; I spoke to Karen at Europa today, and received a helpful email off-list telling me that there should be an o-ring. I've ordered a new cap for a fairly reasonable £26.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458876#458876

Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 185

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Was the design for the fuel cap changed slightly so that the new ones do not seal correctly in an old fitting? I think I remember a post on that some time ago.

Can you get replacement o-rings from eBay or Amazon instead of replacing the whole cap?

Alan

GOBJT

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 29 Jul 2016, at 19:49, Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Mine fitted fine until I was rushing one day and left it off !!!!!! 

 The new one from Europa has never fitted very well, is difficult to remove and doesn't seal. 

 Kevin Challis 

> On 29 Jul 2016, at 20:11, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Thanks again for all the info; I spoke to Karen at Europa today, and received a helpful email off-list telling me that there should be an o-ring. I've ordered a new cap for a fairly reasonable £26.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458876#458876

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Alan,



Back in 2014 Bud Yerly had a batch of older style fuel caps made up because Europa no longer stocked caps for aircraft built prior to 2003.  I don’t know if Bud had any extra caps made up for stock.  You can call/write hime to find out.



I’ll include the text of Bud’s e-mail:

----------------------------------------

On Aug 19, 2014, at 6:19 PM, "Bud Yerly" 

 wrote:



To all owners and operators.

 

I received a call from a client who inadvertently misplaced his gas cap.  His kit is a about a 2001 XS and Europa-Aircraft (2004) does not  have stock on these older caps.  Come to find out, the caps changed in or about 2003.  All caps on newer XS kits have a smaller cap and ring (65mmOD).

 

What to check.

If you have a fuel cap supplied with your kit made by SPRL that measures 70 mm OD on the gray cap, these caps are no longer in production and the new 65 mm caps do not fit properly.  Aircraft Spruce and Wicks do not have any old style caps in inventory.

 

Classic caps and the newer XS kits are available but the cap and flange have to be bought at an average price of about $60-$70.  On the older pre 2004 kits if you have the 70 mm cap and you wish to upgrade to the newer style, you will have to cut the fuel ring out and replace.  Not fun especially since the diameters are different.

 

Please review the pdf document attached for details on the differences.

 

I am putting together a special order for my Custom Flight Clients for the older 70 mm caps through Newton SPRL.  The price is reasonable and less then current retail.  I highly recommend that older XS kit owners purchase a spare in the unlikely event your cap may disappear.  We are not supplying the key lock.  This is a one time shot as it is coming out of my pocket for the R&D.  I cannot expect the current Europa Company to support these pre 2004 kit fuel caps as it is not economically viable to do so. 

 

However, determined owners like myself will attempt to make a special order through the manufacturer happen to keep my clients happy and supplied.  You are all welcome to piggy back on my efforts and research.

 

Email or call in your order to me direct, not through the Matronics site please so as not to clutter up the site.

 

Regards,

 

Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations, Inc.

personal email:  budyerly(at)msn.com,

Mobile Phone:  813-244-8354

----------------------------------------



I hope this helps.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Jul 30, 2016, at 1:35 AM, Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.ukwrote:



--Europa-List message posted by: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>



Was the design for the fuel cap changed slightly so that the new ones do not seal correctly in an old fitting? I think I remember a post on that some time ago.



Can you get replacement o-rings from eBay or Amazon instead of replacing the whole cap?



Alan

GOBJT

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap

The cap I ordered from Europa was delivered from stock the next day, fits perfectly and is 70mm OD; maybe they ordered some from Bud too?

Jim Kelly

Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 70
Location: England

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:12 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

Hello Rick, Is your Europa still at Darley Moor ? Next question what was the problem with Carlton Moor ? Final question when are you next flying to Tatenhill?Best wishes 

Jim

G-BWEG 



On Sunday, 31 July 2016, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com (Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Moss" <[url=javascript:;]Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com[/url]>

 

 The cap I ordered from Europa was delivered from stock the next day, fits perfectly and is 70mm OD; maybe they ordered some from Bud too?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458991#458991

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jim GBWEG

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:34 am Post subject: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap

Hi Jim,



I'm now at Barton and have been for around a year; Darley Moor was fine operationally, but challenging politically! Too many people moving my aircraft without due care and some very territorial hangar occupants. I also moved house making Barton much closer and worth the extra £50pcm.



Calton Moor was the opposite; brilliantly run by a friendly owner with good hangar mates and good hangars. Sadly I wasn't comfortable taking off on 06 due to the house situated at the 24 end. Now I have more experience on type, it'd probably be fine, but I'd still be nervous on a hot day, even solo. The runway undulates significantly, which I found extended the takeoff roll, so I was only ever happy flying light even from 24 with its clear departure. I didn't want to be the second Europa to impact the wall at the end!

Jim Kelly

Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 70
Location: England

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Rain passing through fuel cap

You sound like a wise man. Keep in touch Rick.

 Fair winds  On 1 Aug 2016 10:37 a.m., "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com (Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com (Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Hi Jim,

 

 I'm now at Barton and have been for around a year; Darley Moor was fine operationally, but challenging politically! Too many people moving my aircraft without due care and some very territorial hangar occupants. I also moved house making Barton much closer and worth the extra £50pcm.

 

 Calton Moor was the opposite; brilliantly run by a friendly owner with good hangar mates and good hangars. Sadly I wasn't comfortable taking off on 06 due to the house situated at the 24 end. Now I have more experience on type, it'd probably be fine, but I'd still be nervous on a hot day, even solo. The runway undulates significantly, which I found extended the takeoff roll, so I was only ever happy flying light even from 24 with its clear departure. I didn't want to be the second Europa to impact the wall at the end!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459010#459010

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jim GBWEG

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Rain passing through fuel cap

We have not had any problem with the gas cap leaking and our Europa sits outside a lot during summer.  We disassemble the cap each year during our condition inspection and lubricate both the outside o ring and the smaller o ring that is around the shaft using silicone.



Jim & Heather

N241BW

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