Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

John H, Thank you for sharing your experiences, and for your explanation of the rear pivot affecting the forward spar attach. Now I can much better understand how the hole can get drilled too close to the edge of the forward spar tang. I also now understand how and why this requires the extra space between front fitting plates... thank you, this now makes more sense in my thick head !



But why would you recommend that other people not use the welded plate repair or modification that you used? I understand that when building the airplane you should adjust the rear fitting location so that it does not cause this problem at the front, but ASSUMING that someone finds an edge distance problem on an existing airplane (as I have just found), is there a better method that you would suggest?



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 8/10/16, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



 Subject: RE: Re: Used Firestar Checklist now wing root fitting

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 10:31 AM

 

 

 "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 

 The drag strut fitting is also used to rig the wings. 

 Sliding the fitting in or out of the drag strut affects the

 fore and aft location of the main spar tang.  The space

 between the fuselage carry through is required to give some

 "uh oh" space to work with.

 

 I increased the main spar clevis pin from 5/16 to 3/8 bolts

 based on increased loads and stresses from heavy weather and

 rough landings.  Problems I encountered drilling

 mounting tabs and main spar tang during rigging required a

 little help from a welded .090 4130 plate TIG welded to the

 rear tab.  A proven remedy.

 

 That is the way I did it.  Don't recommend anyone else

 doing the same. 

 

 john h

 Alamosa, Colorado 

 

 

 

 

 

 Yes, but the rear universal joint should keep the main wing

 spar fitting at a fixed fore-aft distance, which should not

 change other than a few thousandths due to heat expansion.

 So there is no scenario where the wing fitting will move

 forward or rearward in the fuselage fitting it could be a

 lot closer without any chance of having it difficult to put

 together.

 

 Bill Berle

  

 

 

 

 

 Forum -

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

Bill

John is just doing what many of us do, to cover our ass. I favor the statement "worth what you paid for it".

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 John H, Thank you for sharing your experiences, and for your explanation of the rear pivot affecting the forward spar attach. Now I can much better understand how the hole can get drilled too close to the edge of the forward spar tang. I also now understand how and why this requires the extra space between front fitting plates... thank you, this now makes more sense in my thick head !

 

 But why would you recommend that other people not use the welded plate repair or modification that you used? I understand that when building the airplane you should adjust the rear fitting location so that it does not cause this problem at the front, but ASSUMING that someone finds an edge distance problem on an existing airplane (as I have just found), is there a better method that you would suggest?

 

 Bill Berle

 www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

 www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

 

 --------------------------------------------

 On Wed, 8/10/16, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 

  Subject: RE: Re: Used Firestar Checklist now wing root fitting

  To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

  Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 10:31 AM

 

  --> Kolb-List message posted by:

  "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

  The drag strut fitting is also used to rig the wings. 

  Sliding the fitting in or out of the drag strut affects the

  fore and aft location of the main spar tang.  The space

  between the fuselage carry through is required to give some

  "uh oh" space to work with.

 

  I increased the main spar clevis pin from 5/16 to 3/8 bolts

  based on increased loads and stresses from heavy weather and

  rough landings.  Problems I encountered drilling

  mounting tabs and main spar tang during rigging required a

  little help from a welded .090 4130 plate TIG welded to the

  rear tab.  A proven remedy.

 

  That is the way I did it.  Don't recommend anyone else

  doing the same.

 

  john h

  Alamosa, Colorado

 

 

 

  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

  Yes, but the rear universal joint should keep the main wing

  spar fitting at a fixed fore-aft distance, which should not

  change other than a few thousandths due to heat expansion.

  So there is no scenario where the wing fitting will move

  forward or rearward in the fuselage fitting it could be a

  lot closer without any chance of having it difficult to put

  together.

 

  Bill Berle

 

 

 

 

 

  Forum -

     - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

  MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

  List Contribution Web Site -

                -Matt

  Dralle, List Admin.

 

 

 

 

 

 ====================================

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bill

 John is just doing what many of us do, to cover our ass. 


	


OK, got it. I hate to see anyone, much less a US military veteran, being in fear of saying the wrong thing. We all deserve better. I'm afraid that I have to side with Shakespeare on the subject of lawyers  



For whatever it is worth, giving advice that saves lives, or prevents someone from doing something that could accidentally harm, is worth the risk in aviation.



But to ease any fear that anyone has... the method that was being discussed is very close or identical to the "acceptable methods and practices" in the FAA AC 43.13 book. This gives people far less to be afraid of when recommending a remedy or repair.

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

mojavjoe

Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

While rigging my firestar ss with wings from my firestar ii, I could not get the diagonals from wing tip to tail to match with the right side the shortest. Tried the same thing with another set of wings, measured the same. Rather than tearing the wing open and replacing the drag strut end fitting I had Malcome make me the outer portion of the wing fold universal 3/8" longer than stock. Re-rigged with new piece on right side, matched diagonals and drilled the new piece. I'm comfortable with this fix because of the small variance and the strength of the part.



joe



From: "Bill Berle" <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>

To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 4:32:33 PM

Subject: Re: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>



 	  Quote: 	
		   Bill

 John is just doing what many of us do, to cover our ass. 


	




OK, got it. I hate to see anyone, much less a US military veteran, being in fear of saying the wrong thing. We all deserve better. I'm afraid that I have to side with Shakespeare on the subject of lawyers  

For whatever it is worth, giving advice that saves lives, or prevents someone from doing something that could accidentally harm, is worth the risk in aviation.

But to ease any fear that anyone has... the method that was being discussed is very close or identical to the "acceptable methods and practices" in the FAA AC 43.13 book. This gives people far less to be afraid of               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<======

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

I don't recommend anyone do anything to their Kolbs, or fly Kolbs the way I do.  If they bust their ass they cannot blame it on me. It is a cover my ass statement.



What I do and have done for many years works or I would not do it.  I do not make changes for the sake of making changes.  Everything I do is passed to Kolb Aircraft for their blessing.  This I have done since about 1987.  Homer Kolb never turned down any change my Brother Jim and I came up with.  I miss him and his advice and friendship.



Sorry for the late response.  First access to WIFI in a week.



john h

mkIII

Montrose, Colorado



--

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: Wing root fitting remedy/beef-up

 	  Quote: 	
		  > It is a cover my ass statement.


	


Message received, loud and clear, thank you 



Progress update for anyone interested: 



Removed the Rotax 447, 2 blade Powerfin, and associated fuel plumbing Saturday. I put the Stits fabric covering on the (mysteriously) missing section on my lower fuselage, as well as applying a patch over a small tear. My pinking shears haven't been out of the toolbox drawer in a while ! For some reason a large section of the fuselage, under the aluminum floorboard, had been left uncovered. "Bad form" as the English say. Well worth the three ounces of added weight.



Before the fabric was installed, I took the opportunity to straighten out three steel tubes in the lower pilot cage that had been bowed outward slightly. The guy had run into something, plain and simple. 



A quart of Stits "Bahama Blue" poly-tone is on the way from Aircraft Spruce as I write this. As soon as the paint is done, the HKS engine will be sloshed out thoroughly with solvent and fuel to remove any sludge or particles, then it will be mounted on the airframe.

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum