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Prop Governor Alternative
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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

Hi



I was a bit concerned that my PCU5000X governor might have an exposure to the MT issue. I was *told* that they shared common parts. To make a long story short I sport to APS who distributes these units. Here is the note I received from them (I told Sean I would post it here). 



So for those facing the MT issue, there is another choice....



Cheers



Les



Les,

                Briefly going over what we discussed earlier, the Aero Technologies, LLC PCU5000X is manufactured by Jihostroj in the Czech Republic, we started our partnership back in 2004 and  it continues to today. MT Propellers governor is manufactured by AVIA also in the Czech Republic but it is a competing company with its own proprietary design. “VAF Special” is the code to use if you want a PCU5000X at $1,250.00 USD plus shipping, normal MSRP is $1,600.00 USD. Thank you for the phone call and being a loyal aviator.

Sean O'Keefe

Business Unit Manager

Aircraft Propeller Service, LLC D.B.A.

Aero Technologies, LLC

595 Telser Road

Lake Zurich, IL 60047

1(847) 541-1133 ext. 109

Direct Line 1(224) 676-6909

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

Another option is the Hartzell gov.



Model S-1-26 for Narrow Deck 540s



Model S-1-32 for Wide Deck 540s



And if you use Van's throttle quadrant you need the extension, Hartzell part number 103568 governor arm extension

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Greg McFarlane

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Albany Western Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

The other alternative is the MT  P-860-5 with the gear reduction of .947:1 that MT recommend for the Wide Deck IO 540s that most of the RV10 fleet have.  The MT   P-860-3 as others, including MT have said has a gear reduction of .895:1 which is recommended for the older narrow deck engines.

40555

Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:26 am Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

Thanks,I will return to MT for the service bulletin...

Craig

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:43 AM, Greg McFarlane <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg McFarlane" <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)>

 

 The other alternative is the MT  P-860-5 with the gear reduction of .947:1 that MT recommend for the Wide Deck IO 540s that most of the RV10 fleet have.  The MT   P-860-3 as others, including MT have said has a gear reduction of .895:1 which is recommended for the older narrow deck engines.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459947#459947

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Thank You,

Craig RufiEmail craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)

Cell 805 402-6480

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

 	  Greg McFarlane wrote: 	
		  The other alternative is the MT  P-860-5 with the gear reduction of .947:1 that MT recommend for the Wide Deck IO 540s that most of the RV10 fleet have.  The MT   P-860-3 as others, including MT have said has a gear reduction of .895:1 which is recommended for the older narrow deck engines. 	




That's true.  However, in the past week it has been confirmed that:



1.  The internals of the -3 and -5 are exactly the same.  



2.  The ratio difference should not cause a failure.



3.  The -5's will be included in the SB. 



4.  MT and Van's originally recommended the -3 for all 540 engines.  



5.  Van's sold dozens if not hundreds of -3 units to wide deck owners.  I don't believe that Van's catalog even offered a -5 until the outbreak began.



6.  Van's offered two Hartzell models with the two ratios, but until recently listed them in the catalog as for "O" or "IO" which doesn't make any difference.



7.  Jihostroj used to make the PG's for MT until AVIA took over and they all trace back to an original Czech military design.  (so I've been told)



Of course all is subject to change on almost a daily basis.



I still believe that it is too early to make a definitive decision on anything other than the correct Hartzell for your configuration if you need to fly right away.



 My opinion only YMMV.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

Myron



I don't agree with your final conclusion.



Based on my discussion with APS (who market the PCU5000X), Avia took over the MT PG in 2004. The MT design (from Avia) is different than the PCU5000X and has evolved independently.



Since 2004, the Jihostroj has been selling PGs (e.g. the PCU5000X) based on its proprietary design.



Personally, I have no problem flying behind my PCU5000X. 



For info, I repeat Sean's email:



Les, 

Briefly going over what we discussed earlier, the Aero Technologies, LLC PCU5000X is manufactured by Jihostroj in the Czech Republic, we started our partnership back in 2004 and it continues to today. MT Propellers governor is manufactured by AVIA also in the Czech Republic but it is a competing company with its own proprietary design. “VAF Special” is the code to use if you want a PCU5000X at $1,250.00 USD plus shipping, normal MSRP is $1,600.00 USD. Thank you for the phone call and being a loyal aviator. 

Sean O'Keefe 

Business Unit Manager 

Aircraft Propeller Service, LLC D.B.A. 

Aero Technologies, LLC 

595 Telser Road 

Lake Zurich, IL 60047 

1(847) 541-1133 ext. 109 

Direct Line 1(224) 676-6909

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

That's fine. I completely understand. The value of these forums is information and debate. 



When something like this happens to you, the first thing that happens is you have to make dozens of phone calls. The first time I called MT they said they'd never heard of this issue. The second time I called them, I was told that they (MT-USA) were just a satellite office and that all inquiries would have to be directed to Germany which normal business hours end at 8:00 am my time. When I finally got ahold of Germany, I was told that they were waiting for info back from the CR and that all future info would be handled by the USA office, the VERY OFFICE THAT TOLD ME TO CALL EUROPE.



When I called Hartzell, I was immediately connected to a tech rep that spoke my language and spent 45 minutes with me answering questions and later voluntarily spoke with my insurance adjuster to clarify an extremely important issue which saved me a lot of money. 



I have zero basis to degrade the PCU model. It may be the best there is. I have just garnered a new appreciation for US based companies. 



We are all creations of the sum of our collective experience. I write this sitting in a VW Passat TDI that VW is about to buy back.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

Dear Myron



That's called nationalism ...



Not good, not bad, it's just what it is



Regards

Carlos

(No hard feelings from Europe)



Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 27/08/2016, às 23:30, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 That's fine. I completely understand. The value of these forums is information and debate. 

 

 When something like this happens to you, the first thing that happens is you have to make dozens of phone calls. The first time I called MT they said they'd never heard of this issue. The second time I called them, I was told that they (MT-USA) were just a satellite office and that all inquiries would have to be directed to Germany which normal business hours end at 8:00 am my time. When I finally got ahold of Germany, I was told that they were waiting for info back from the CR and that all future info would be handled by the USA office, the VERY OFFICE THAT TOLD ME TO CALL EUROPE.

 

 When I called Hartzell, I was immediately connected to a tech rep that spoke my language and spent 45 minutes with me answering questions and later voluntarily spoke with my insurance adjuster to clarify an extremely important issue which saved me a lot of money. 

 

 I have zero basis to degrade the PCU model. It may be the best there is. I have just garnered a new appreciation for US based companies. 

 

 We are all creations of the sum of our collective experience. I write this sitting in a VW Passat TDI that VW is about to buy back.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Flew May 10 2014

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459961#459961

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

Carlos,



My parents were European. My wife's family Canadian. I spent a good part of my childhood in England and my early Adulthood in Argentina. I possess a European CAA license obtained in Belgium. I just bought my wife a Subaru to replace her beloved VW TDI.

I assure you that my "asunto" is one of access and convenience, and not nationalism.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:49 am Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

I understand!



We are both citizens of the world...



Hope you solve your prop gov problem



Cheers

Carlos



No dia 28/08/2016, às 00:23, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Carlos,

 

 My parents were European. My wife's family Canadian. I spent a good part of my childhood in England and my early Adulthood in Argentina. I possess a European CAA license obtained in Belgium. I just bought my wife a Subaru to replace her beloved VW TDI.

 I assure you that my "asunto" is one of access and convenience, and not nationalism.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Flew May 10 2014

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459964#459964

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

Myron



Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 



Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.



Anyway, I am curious..



Cheers



Les

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

 	  kearney wrote: 	
		  Myron



Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 



Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.



Anyway, I am curious..



Cheers



Les 	




Not Myron but the issue he mentioned involved replacing his prop as a result of the PG failure. His adjuster balked initially but we have the same underwriter and when his found out than my adjuster had approved the replacement based upon Hartzell's tech data and direct recommendation the replacement was approved.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:02 am Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

Hi Todd

I think I understand what happened. I am just  curious as to why damage arising from a part failure is an insurance event. I am glad it worked out hit you and Myron, I am just trying to understand the insurance logic - if there is such a thing. 

Cheers

Les

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:32 AM, tsts4 <tsts4us(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 kearney wrote:

> Myron

> 

> Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 

> 

> Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.

> 

> Anyway, I am curious..

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Les

 Not Myron but the issue he mentioned involved replacing his prop as a result of the PG failure. His adjuster balked initially but we have the same underwriter and when his found out than my adjuster had approved the replacement based upon Hartzell's tech data and direct recommendation the replacement was approved.

 --------

 Todd Stovall

 aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

 RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459984#459984

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

 	  kearney wrote: 	
		  Hi Todd

I think I understand what happened. I am just  curious as to why damage arising from a part failure is an insurance event. I am glad it worked out hit you and Myron, I am just trying to understand the insurance logic - if there is such a thing. 

Cheers

Les

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:32 AM, tsts4 <tsts4us> wrote:

 kearney wrote:

> Myron

> 

> Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 

> 

> Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.

> 

> Anyway, I am curious..

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Les

 Not Myron but the issue he mentioned involved replacing his prop as a result of the PG failure. His adjuster balked initially but we have the same underwriter and when his found out than my adjuster had approved the replacement based upon Hartzell's tech data and direct recommendation the replacement was approved.

 --------

 Todd Stovall

 aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

 RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459984#459984

Simple.  Both of our policies covered the damage caused by a parts failure (we have different agency's but have the same underwriter).  So replacement of the damaged PG is not covered but the subsequent damaged caused by the failure is.  In my case, what is covered is the shipping, teardown, inspection, and repair of the engine, inspection and repair, if necessary, of the mags, replacement of the prop, and replacement of the alternators.  All of this is based upon manufactured guidance and tech data due to the overspeed.  That estimate is almost $23K and that's before they find any issues with the engine which I'm sure there will be at least one repair--the prop gov drive assembly.  Without insurance I wouldn't  be able to afford the repairs and replacements.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

The issue is actually whether the prop governor and prop are one single component of two different parts or two separate components. Insurance policy verbiage is a little vague in that respect. Insurance doesn't cover a failed component. However, the good ones cover anxillary damage to other components as a result of a failed component. 



I don't want to get into too much detail yet, but suffice to say that I will always stick with Gallagher and AIG as long as they'll have me.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

The convention seems to be that the first thing that fails is your responsibility.  Everything after that is often handled by insurance. 

Think:  Engine failure followed by an off airport landing. 

Or gear failure followed by a belly landing.

Governor failure followed by an engine tear down or prop replacement due to an overspeed  seems to be treated similarly.

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 28, 2016, at 12:55 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 Hi Todd

 I think I understand what happened. I am just  curious as to why damage arising from a part failure is an insurance event. I am glad it worked out hit you and Myron, I am just trying to understand the insurance logic - if there is such a thing. 

 Cheers

 Les

 Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:32 AM, tsts4 <tsts4us(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> 

> kearney wrote:

>> Myron

>> 

>> Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 

>> 

>> Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.

>> 

>> Anyway, I am curious..

>> 

>> Cheers

>> 

>> Les

> 

> 

> Not Myron but the issue he mentioned involved replacing his prop as a result of the PG failure. His adjuster balked initially but we have the same underwriter and when his found out than my adjuster had approved the replacement based upon Hartzell's tech data and direct recommendation the replacement was approved.

> 

> --------

> Todd Stovall

> aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

> RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459984#459984

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

That's good! Who is your insurance company if you don't mind me asking?!

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:22 PM, tsts4 <tsts4us(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 kearney wrote:

> Hi Todd

> 

> I think I understand what happened. I am just  curious as to why damage arising from a part failure is an insurance event. I am glad it worked out hit you and Myron, I am just trying to understand the insurance logic - if there is such a thing. 

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Les

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

> 

>> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:32 AM, tsts4  wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> kearney wrote:

>>> Myron

>>> 

>>> Your post mentioned that Hartzell clarified an important issue that saved you a lot of $$$. 

>>> 

>>> Can you share the specifics? As I understand it the issue is with the MT PG. If this has a failure that causes other issues (i.e. damage to the engine), is it an insurable event. I would have thought that the liability would have been with MT.

>>> 

>>> Anyway, I am curious..

>>> 

>>> Cheers

>>> 

>>> Les

>> 

>> 

>> Not Myron but the issue he mentioned involved replacing his prop as a result of the PG failure. His adjuster balked initially but we have the same underwriter and when his found out than my adjuster had approved the replacement based upon Hartzell's tech data and direct recommendation the replacement was approved.

>> 

>> --------

>> Todd Stovall

>> aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

>> RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459984#459984

 Simple.  Both of our policies covered the damage caused by a parts failure (we have different agency's but have the same underwriter).  So replacement of the damaged PG is not covered but the subsequent damaged caused by the failure is.  In my case, what is covered is the shipping, teardown, inspection, and repair of the engine, inspection and repair, if necessary, of the mags, replacement of the prop, and replacement of the alternators.  All of this is based upon manufactured guidance and tech data due to the overspeed.  That estimate is almost $23K and that's before they find any issues with the engine which I'm sure there will be at least one repair--the prop gov drive assembly.  Without insurance I wouldn't  be able to afford the repairs and replacements.

 --------

 Todd Stovall

 aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

 RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459988#459988

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

 	  jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM wrote: 	
		  That's good! Who is your insurance company if you don't mind me asking?!



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:22 PM, tsts4 <tsts4us> wrote:

 

 

 

 



	
	




Falcon (partnered with USAA)

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

larkrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: Prop Governor Alternative

Guys, my conversation with my broker here in Ontario indicates there is no insurance coverage for me unless I had damage due to for example a hard landing after my governor failure.  While this whole governor fiasco is disturbing and ultimately costly for everyone, consider yourselves lucky to have that type of coverage.  AIG Canada isn't biting.......

Rick

Southampton, Ont

#40956

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 3:21 PM, tsts4 <tsts4us(at)gmail.com (tsts4us(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "tsts4" <tsts4us(at)gmail.com (tsts4us(at)gmail.com)>

 

 

 jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM wrote:

 > That's good! Who is your insurance company if you don't mind me asking?!

 >

 > Sent from my iPhone

 >

 >

 > >  On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:22 PM, tsts4  wrote:

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 

 

 Falcon (partnered with USAA)

 

 --------

 Todd Stovall

 aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF

 RV-10 N728TT -- Grounded for engine teardown!!!!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459996#459996

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ====================================

 -List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 lank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Prop Governor Alternative

Don't give up Rick. Keep meticulous records. Hopefully MT steps up for everyone.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

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