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Connectors for Wing Roots

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:29 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for these connectors. There was a thread here recently about Molex connectors being good for long term use but not designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode, especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing end-of-life.

The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey for a device that I need to operate just once per year

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that you would recommend?

I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of the others are low current.

I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

Thanks,

Â  Â  -- Art Z.



-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:13 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

handshake connectors



On Thursday, 25 August 2016, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for these connectors. There was a thread here recently about Molex connectors being good for long term use but not designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode, especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing end-of-life.

The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey for a device that I need to operate just once per year

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that you would recommend?

I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of the others are low current.

I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

Thanks,

Â  Â  -- Art Z.



-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

 

 	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:56 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Bob,



Do you mean these things:Â http://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/connectors/crimp-solderless-terminals/insulated/hand-shake-connectors.html

Those look like something to use in lieu of a splice, not something to be disconnected/reconnected when the wing is removed for inspection and reinstalled after the annual.

Â  Â  -- Art Z.





On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com (bob.verwey(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  handshake connectors



On Thursday, 25 August 2016, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for these connectors. There was a thread here recently about Molex connectors being good for long term use but not designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode, especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing end-of-life.

The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey for a device that I need to operate just once per year

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that you would recommend?

I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of the others are low current.

I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

Thanks,

Â  Â  -- Art Z.



-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

 

 	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey



 	




-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:12 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

On 8/25/2016 6:26 AM, Art Zemon wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  From the             The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From             Department:

           

           

           I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots             of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for             inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for             these connectors. There was a thread here recently about             Molex connectors being good for long term use but not             designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying             away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode,             especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing             end-of-life.

           

           

           The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey             for a device that I need to operate just once per year

           http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

           

           

           Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that             you would recommend?

           

           

           I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of             the others are low current.

           I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

           

           

           Thanks,

           Â  Â  -- Art Z.             

             

             -- 

                            http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/                                  "If                   I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only                   for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

               

             

           

         

       

     	
     Art,

     

     My go-to connector is almost always the standard sub-D, using crimp     style machined pins. For the 10A loads, just parallel a pair of pins     using 6" pigtails (details in the book). They've been around for     decades, any number of pins you would reasonably need (pick a shell     with a half dozen extra slots for future expansion), they are rock     solid reliable (gold plated pins), reasonably priced, common     affordable installation tools (that you'll need for your avionics,     anyway), and you can find them almost anywhere. As long as you don't     position them in a steady stream of water, they should be great.

     

     Charlie

kjashton(at)vnet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:44 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

For wing connectors, there is always something suitable at the FLAPS.  I use a 4-wire round rubber connector that is pretty water resistant.   Flat trailer connectors would work.  For a show-horse, Anderson Powerpole.

-Kent



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 On 8/25/2016 6:26 AM, Art Zemon wrote:

> From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Indeed! Art they are very reliable. slip a piece of clear tubing over each joint and cable tie to keep in place. SOP for many OEM's



On Thursday, 25 August 2016, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



Do you mean these things:Â http://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/connectors/crimp-solderless-terminals/insulated/hand-shake-connectors.html

Those look like something to use in lieu of a splice, not something to be disconnected/reconnected when the wing is removed for inspection and reinstalled after the annual.

Â  Â  -- Art Z.





On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Bob Verwey <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bob.verwey(at)gmail.com');]bob.verwey(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  handshake connectors



On Thursday, 25 August 2016, Art Zemon <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','art(at)zemon.name');]art(at)zemon.name[/url]> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for these connectors. There was a thread here recently about Molex connectors being good for long term use but not designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode, especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing end-of-life.

The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey for a device that I need to operate just once per year

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that you would recommend?

I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of the others are low current.

I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

Thanks,

Â  Â  -- Art Z.



-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

 

 	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey



 	




-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

 

 	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:25 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

... woops... and Charie.

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:25 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

DB connectors and trailer light connectors. Two good suggestions. Thank you, Bob & Bob.

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide mfg. and pt. no.



 Cheers!   Stu.

 



   From: "Bob Verwey" <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:11:48 AM

Subject: Re: Connectors for Wing Roots

 



handshake connectors

 



On Thursday, 25 August 2016, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    From the The-Nice-Thing-About-Standards-Is-There-Are-So-Many-To-Choose-From Department:

 



 I need to choose the connectors to use at the wing roots of my BD-4C. The wings will come off annually for inspection, which means at least one cycle per year for these connectors. There was a thread here recently about Molex connectors being good for long term use but not designed for many operational cycles. That has me shying away from Molex because I don't understand the failure mode, especially how to recognize a connector that is nearing end-of-life.

 



 The AMP CPC series looks solid but seems kind of pricey for a device that I need to operate just once per year

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/cablecableaccessories_cpc.html

 



 Is that CPC right choice? Is there something else that you would recommend?

 



 I need 9 pins in the left wing. 2 (at) 10 amps and all of the others are low current.

 I need 6 pins in the right wing, all low current.

 



 Thanks,

     -- Art Z. 



-- 

  http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel



	


 



-- 

   Best...  Bob Verwey

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:30 AM 8/26/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide mfg. and pt. no.

 Cheers!Â Â  Stu. 	


 Â  



 Â  Here is one modern incarnation of a T&B terminal

 Â  we used to use on the Cessna twin engine line.

 Â  As you can see, they're not cheap. They're certainly

 Â  secure in tension . . . but no more so than a

 Â  knife splice.



 Â  I've got some 40 year old wrist-locks around here

 Â  somewhere . . . shows you how often I've been

 Â  excited about using them.



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

	




In addition to being pricey, anything like that (knife splice, etc) still has the downside of requiring an operation for each wire whenever they must be disconnected, and they require some other ID for each wire pair to ID them for re-connection, with a risk of error still there. With a multi-pin, keyed connector, one operation and no risk of connection error.Â

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

The Matronics server seems to no longer allow

 embedded images. Here's a re-post of my comment

 along with a link to the picture



 At 11:30 AM 8/26/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide mfg. and pt. no.

 Cheers!   Stu. 	


   



   Here is one modern incarnation of a T&B terminal

   we used to use on the Cessna twin engine line.

   As you can see, they're not cheap. They're certainly

   secure in tension . . . but no more so than a

   knife splice.



  http://tinyurl.com/z5nx9h3



   I've got some 40 year old wrist-locks around here

   somewhere . . . shows you how often I've been

   excited about using them.



 

 

   Bob . . .

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

The picture and the table of prices came through to me in email.

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 

understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 

And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 

egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 

admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 

-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 08/28/2016 12:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The Matronics server seems to no longer allow

 embedded images. Here's a re-post of my comment

 along with a link to the picture

 At 11:30 AM 8/26/2016, you wrote:

> Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide

> mfg. and pt. no.

> Cheers!   Stu.

   Here is one modern incarnation of a T&B terminal

   we used to use on the Cessna twin engine line.

   As you can see, they're not cheap. They're certainly

   secure in tension . . . but no more so than a

   knife splice.

 http://tinyurl.com/z5nx9h3

   I've got some 40 year old wrist-locks around here

   somewhere . . . shows you how often I've been

   excited about using them.

   Bob . . .

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Bob,



Same here. However, when I tried to reply to that email (the reply 

included the images from your original post), the Matronics server 

rejected my reply. I then deleted the images from my reply, and the 

server accepted it.



That's not the 1st time it's happened to me in replying to one of your 

emails that had embedded images, so apparently it must alter something 

in the image when it 'broadcasts' the original email, and the resultant 

altered image isn't allowed to come back into the server.



Charlie



On 8/28/2016 1:13 PM, rayj wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The picture and the table of prices came through to me in email.



 Raymond Julian

 Kettle River, MN



 The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, 

 honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in 

 our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, 

 acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of 

 success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the 

 produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate 

 (1902-1968)



 On 08/28/2016 12:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

> The Matronics server seems to no longer allow

> embedded images. Here's a re-post of my comment

> along with a link to the picture

>

> At 11:30 AM 8/26/2016, you wrote:

>> Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide

>> mfg. and pt. no.

>> Cheers!   Stu.

>

>   Here is one modern incarnation of a T&B terminal

>   we used to use on the Cessna twin engine line.

>   As you can see, they're not cheap. They're certainly

>   secure in tension . . . but no more so than a

>   knife splice.

>

> http://tinyurl.com/z5nx9h3

>

>   I've got some 40 year old wrist-locks around here

>   somewhere . . . shows you how often I've been

>   excited about using them.

>   Bob . . .

>

ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Hi Bob;

I think the "wristlock" is different than the "handshake," but seem to do the same function. Thanks; I didn't know about wristlock either.

Cheers!   Stu.

From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 10:17:59 AM

Subject: Re: Connectors for Wing Roots

The Matronics server seems to no longer allow

 embedded images. Here's a re-post of my comment

 along with a link to the picture

At 11:30 AM 8/26/2016, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Not familiar with "handshake connectors." Please amplify and provide mfg. and pt. no.

 Cheers!   Stu. 	

  Here is one modern incarnation of a T&B terminal

   we used to use on the Cessna twin engine line.

   As you can see, they're not cheap. They're certainly

   secure in tension . . . but no more so than a

   knife splice.

 http://tinyurl.com/z5nx9h3

[url=http://tinyurl.com/z5nx9h3][/url]  I've got some 40 year old wrist-locks around here

   somewhere . . . shows you how often I've been

   excited about using them.

  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:12 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

At 10:27 PM 8/28/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob;

 I think the "wristlock" is different than the "handshake," but seem to do the same function. Thanks; I didn't know about wristlock either.

 Cheers!   Stu. 	


    Oh . . . I've not seen the "handshake" colloquialism   applied to terminals before . . . but it seems to

    make sense for knife splices.



   

    Is this a 'handshake' terminal?  Need to keep

    my hangarspeak dictionary up to date!



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Hi Bob;

Yes, I believe you have illustrated the handshake. Is it less colloquially called a knife splice?

Cheers!   Stu.

From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 6:07:47 AM

Subject: Re: Connectors for Wing Roots

At 10:27 PM 8/28/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob;

 I think the "wristlock" is different than the "handshake," but seem to do the same function. Thanks; I didn't know about wristlock either.

 Cheers!   Stu. 	

    Oh . . . I've not seen the "handshake" colloquialism   applied to terminals before . . . but it seems to

    make sense for knife splices.

    Is this a 'handshake' terminal?  Need to keep

    my hangarspeak dictionary up to date!

  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:16 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

At 09:51 AM 8/29/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		      Hi Bob;

 Yes, I believe you have illustrated the handshake. Is it less colloquially called a knife splice?

 Cheers!   Stu. 	




   Interesting question. A google search

   on 'knife splice' yielded 390,000

   hits; 'hand shake splice' yielded

   only 151,000 hits. But in spite of

   my own ignorance for the use of

   'hand shake' . . . it's obviously

   in wide spread use.



   I can go to bed tonight knowing

   something that I did not know this

   morning . . . it's a good day!

   



 

 

   Bob . . .

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

Question regarding both the knife/handshake and wristlock connectors. 

Do they achieve the high pressure connection that the spade terminals 

achieve?  Aside from electrically insulating them from the environment 

should any additional steps be taken to "seal them in"?  I'm thinking of 

dielectric grease coating under shrink seal, or even better, adhesive 

filled shrink seal.

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 

understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 

And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 

egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 

admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 

-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 08/29/2016 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 09:51 AM 8/29/2016, you wrote:

>     Hi Bob;

> Yes, I believe you have illustrated the handshake. Is it less

> colloquially called a knife splice?

> Cheers!   Stu.

   Interesting question. A google search

   on 'knife splice' yielded 390,000

   hits; 'hand shake splice' yielded

   only 151,000 hits. But in spite of

   my own ignorance for the use of

   'hand shake' . . . it's obviously

   in wide spread use.

   I can go to bed tonight knowing

   something that I did not know this

   morning . . . it's a good day!

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: Connectors for Wing Roots

At 11:13 AM 8/29/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>



 Question regarding both the knife/handshake and wristlock connectors. Do they achieve the high pressure connection that the spade terminals achieve?  Aside from electrically insulating them from the environment should any additional steps be taken to "seal them in"?  I'm thinking of dielectric grease coating under shrink seal, or even better, adhesive filled shrink seal.

 	


   Ordinary heat-shrink keeps them engaged and

   free of incidental contamination. It's been

   done this way on TC aircraft forever . . .

   did it on B52s in 1960 except we had

   soft vinyl tubing with string ties on both

   ends . . . the era before heat-shrink.



   The purpose of this kind of joint is SERVICEABILITY,

   ease of opening single strands for maintenance.

   They've proven quite adequate to the task

   for decades. 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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