Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Sticky start?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

greg.barnhard@gmail.com

Joined: 24 Jun 2016
Posts: 29

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Hello everyone,



Please bear with me as I'm still pretty new to the Yak world and trying to wrap my head around everything. 



The last couple of flights I did (last dozen or so) I had to push the start button multiple times (and while holding) to actually get the prop to turn over. As soon as I pushed the button I could hear the shower of sparks immediately but no start valve or air. The battery voltage was plenty good 24.5 - 25 volts at a minimum. I'm trying to figure out if this might be a solenoid issue or a sticky start valve. Any thoughts, suggestion, advice? 



Thanks so much.

Greg

Yak 52W

hkgibby(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Hi Greg-



Sounds like your QDF-1 start solenoid/valve is sticking and failing.  The lower pneumatic portion of the valve is very prone to corrosion.  Craig Payne did a nice article for Red Alert a year or so ago that gives great advice on the care and feeding of the often forgotten QDF.  Doug also sells a re-build kit for the lower portion.  Try manually overriding the electrical (shower of sparks) side next start by pushing down on the tab on the valve (right firewall) and see how it responds.  Two person operation of course.  Maybe Craig or someone can post that article.  I'll try to find it myself and send it to you offline.



Hoot



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 15, 2016, at 2:49 PM, "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello everyone,

 

 Please bear with me as I'm still pretty new to the Yak world and trying to wrap my head around everything. 

 

 The last couple of flights I did (last dozen or so) I had to push the start button multiple times (and while holding) to actually get the prop to turn over. As soon as I pushed the button I could hear the shower of sparks immediately but no start valve or air. The battery voltage was plenty good 24.5 - 25 volts at a minimum. I'm trying to figure out if this might be a solenoid issue or a sticky start valve. Any thoughts, suggestion, advice? 

 

 Thanks so much.

 Greg

 Yak 52W

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461314#461314

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Low air pressure?



On Saturday, October 15, 2016, greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com) <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "[url=javascript:;]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]" <[url=javascript:;]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]>

 

 Hello everyone,

 

 Please bear with me as I'm still pretty new to the Yak world and trying to wrap my head around everything.

 

 The last couple of flights I did (last dozen or so) I had to push the start button multiple times (and while holding) to actually get the prop to turn over. As soon as I pushed the button I could hear the shower of sparks immediately but no start valve or air. The battery voltage was plenty good 24.5 - 25 volts at a minimum. I'm trying to figure out if this might be a solenoid issue or a sticky start valve. Any thoughts, suggestion, advice?

 

 Thanks so much.

 Greg

 Yak 52W

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461314#461314

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ====================================

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 lank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

greg.barnhard@gmail.com

Joined: 24 Jun 2016
Posts: 29

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sticky start?

Ernie, the air pressure isn't low, almost always 5 on the gauge.



Hoot, that sounds about right. I'll have to try that. If you could find a link that would be awesome...in the mean time I'm going to search for that. 



Is that the only major area that sees corrosion or are there other places I should look as well?



Thanks!

Greg

rmhou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Flash your starter valve with WD40 should get you going for awhile, but you are likely to need a valve overhaul in the very near future.



Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

  	  Quote: 	
		    On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 15:44, greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com

<greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

   --> Yak-List message posted by: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)>



Ernie, the air pressure isn't low, almost always 5 on the gauge.



Hoot, that sounds about right. I'll have to try that. If you could find a link that would be awesome...in the mean time I'm going to search for that. 



Is that the only major area that sees corrosion or are there other places I should look as well?



Thanks!

Greg





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461318#461318http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matr             - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

_ http://wiki.matron                     -Mats.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution==============

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Go to the RPA website. It will be in archieves.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 15, 2016, at 5:44 PM, "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Ernie, the air pressure isn't low, almost always 5 on the gauge.

 

 Hoot, that sounds about right. I'll have to try that. If you could find a link that would be awesome...in the mean time I'm going to search for that. 

 

 Is that the only major area that sees corrosion or are there other places I should look as well?

 

 Thanks!

 Greg

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461318#461318

_________________
Viperdoc

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

If it's a Yak 52, you're not going to like this job.  If a CJ, it's a piece of cake.

Remove the air start valve and either disassemble and clean it or call Doug Sapp and order a new air start valve and replace it.  There are set screws on the sides of the hex head.  So be sure to loosen them before you attempt to disassemble it.

If it's a Yak 52, there should be a small tab on the side which is used to manually engage the air start valve using the side of the sole of your shoe.  If you decide to replace it, ask Doug if he has one with the tab on the side.

Dennis



       From: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 5:49 PM

 Subject: Yak-List: Sticky start?

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)>



Hello everyone,



Please bear with me as I'm still pretty new to the Yak world and trying to wrap my head around everything. 



The last couple of flights I did (last dozen or so) I had to push the start button multiple times (and while holding) to actually get the prop to turn over. As soon as I pushed the button I could hear the shower of sparks immediately but no start valve or air. The battery voltage was plenty good 24.5 - 25 volts at a minimum. I'm trying to figure out if this might be a solenoid issue or a sticky start valve. Any thoughts, suggestion, advice? 



Thanks so much.

Greg

Yak 52W





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com///www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronp;                     &nhttp://========================

hkgibby(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: Sticky start?

Greg-



If you mean just the start system (which has few components) downstream of the QDF-1  then the next item is the air distributor (spider web of metal tubes "hub") on the engine accessory case which could cause starting issues but it is typically not an issue unless it has been tampered with as it is factory set.  There are 9 individual air check valves (one on each cylinder) that can corrode.  If one fails though it is a very obvious leak and the prop will stop on that cylinder.  Upstream of the solenoid your main air valve can leak and I recommend you replace the steel needle valve with a SS one which Doug has.  I am confident it is your QDF-1 once you rule out the Main air valve.  The pneumatic system has 44 items which are ALL prone to corrosion and can cause different issues.  Replace all springs and needle valves with Stainless Steel and rebuild, clean, change desiccant often and upgrade where possible to keep your system as healthy as possible.  Do it all at once or over time but the pneumatic system probably causes by far the most gripes in our birds than any of the other aircraft systems combined.  Fortunately Doug has all items you need to maintain and upgrade to SS and Jill can now rebuild gear/flap valves.



Good luck!!ðŸ€ 



Hoot



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 15, 2016, at 3:44 PM, "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Ernie, the air pressure isn't low, almost always 5 on the gauge.

 

 Hoot, that sounds about right. I'll have to try that. If you could find a link that would be awesome...in the mean time I'm going to search for that. 

 

 Is that the only major area that sees corrosion or are there other places I should look as well?

 

 Thanks!

 Greg

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461318#461318

greg.barnhard@gmail.com

Joined: 24 Jun 2016
Posts: 29

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Sticky start?

Once the valve opens it starts just fine. The issue is getting the valve to open once the start button is pushed. It is on a Yak 52W, so I had a feeling none of this would be fun. Is the valve and solenoid separate or are they apart of the same unit aka replace one you're replacing both. I'm still learning about how this plane was cared for by the previous owner for the past 16 years (since new) so it's a learning experience. Thanks again for everyone's patience dealing with the new guy. 



I'm doing a lot of work on it this winter and would prefer to get as much done as possible now while everything is opened up. It sounds like stainless is the way to go with the pneumatic system. 



Thanks!

Greg

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:36 am Post subject: Sticky start?

The valve and solenoid are one unit and it is located in front of the left rudder pedal in the front cockpit on the firewall.   I've attached a photo of the air start valve on a standard Yak 52.  It's  the same on a 52W.  Except the rudder pedal will block the view (AND the  ability to manually engage the air start valve).  Notice in the photo  there is a clamp around which mounts it on the firewall. It is the vertical cylinder looking thing.  It's much more difficult to remove on the 52W because of the hydraulic brake pedals.  The electrical connector is on the top of the unit.  There are two pneumatic fittings.  One on the bottom and one on the side.  



The reason the valve won't open initially is because it is gunked up internally or the solenoid has become weak.   Once you clean and reassemble it, you can test it on the bench with a 24 volt battery.  If it doesn't open immediately when you test it, then I would suggest you replace it.  Just don't reinstall it and then test it because if it's defective, you'll obviously have to remove it again and install a new one.

Dennis



       From: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:46 PM

 Subject: Re: Sticky start?

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)>



Once the valve opens it starts just fine. The issue is getting the valve to open once the start button is pushed. It is on a Yak 52W, so I had a feeling none of this would be fun. Is the valve and solenoid separate or are they apart of the same unit aka replace one you're replacing both. I'm still learning about how this plane was cared for by the previous owner for the past 16 years (since new) so it's a learning experience. Thanks again for everyone's patience dealing with the new guy. 



I'm doing a lot of work on it this winter and would prefer to get as much done as possible now while everything is opened up. It sounds like stainless is the way to go with the pneumatic system. 



Thanks!

Greg





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461328#461328http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.mat             - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

_ http://wiki.matro                     -Mats.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution==============

Air_Start_Valve_Photo.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Air_Start_Valve_Photo.pdf

Filesize:

92.63 KB

Downloaded:

440 Time(s)

greg.barnhard@gmail.com

Joined: 24 Jun 2016
Posts: 29

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Sticky start?

Dennis, that's perfect. Thank you. If I may, what's your recommendation for a lubricant for the air system?



Thanks,

Greg

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: Sticky start?

Greg,

 Try shooting a little mouse milk in it and moving the manual lever a few  times.  Or some WD40 or airtool oil too.

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

 PS Will be going out on the B24 on the 27th.  How about you?

  

  In a message dated 10/15/2016 10:47:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com"    <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com>



Once the valve opens it starts just    fine. The issue is getting the valve to open once the start button is pushed.    It is on a Yak 52W, so I had a feeling none of this would be fun. Is the valve    and solenoid separate or are they apart of the same unit aka replace one    you're replacing both. I'm still learning about how this plane was cared for    by the previous owner for the past 16 years (since new) so it's a learning    experience. Thanks again for everyone's patience dealing with the new guy.    



I'm doing a lot of work on it this winter and would prefer to get as    much done as possible now while everything is opened up. It sounds like    stainless is the way to go with the pneumatic system.    



Thanks!

Greg





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461328#461328===============================================

_-=   e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================              - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -_-=                - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================

byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: Sticky start?

Doug Sapp recommends castor oil to lubricate the air system



Blitz Fox415-307-2405





On Oct 16, 2016, at 9:17 AM, "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com (greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com)>



Dennis, that's perfect. Thank you. If I may, what's your recommendation for a lubricant for the air system?



Thanks,

Greg





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461342#461342



<==========================          - The Yak-List Email nics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List================================================

http://www.matronics.com/contribution<========================================

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: Sticky start?

It's also recommended in the CJ maintenance and overhaul manuals.



On Sunday, October 16, 2016, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Doug Sapp recommends castor oil to lubricate the air system



Blitz Fox415-307-2405





On Oct 16, 2016, at 9:17 AM, "[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com');]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]" <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com');]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com');]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]" <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com');]greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com[/url]>



Dennis, that's perfect. Thank you. If I may, what's your recommendation for a lubricant for the air system?



Thanks,

Greg





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461342#461342



<= Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â - The Yak-List Email nics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List================================================

http://www.matronics.com/contribution<========================================

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Sticky start?

None. Everything we dump in there breaks down the cheep RU and Chinese rubber seals.



Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 16, 2016, at 11:17 AM, "greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com" <greg.barnhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Dennis, that's perfect. Thank you. If I may, what's your recommendation for a lubricant for the air system?

 

 Thanks,

 Greg

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461342#461342

_________________
Viperdoc

greg.barnhard@gmail.com

Joined: 24 Jun 2016
Posts: 29

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Sticky start?

Interesting information. I appreciate it. 



Pappy, I missed the PS. I think I'm done for the year unless a slot opens up and they need someone. I'll be starting off in Florida so I will see you then!



Greg

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum