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Double Check Antenna Placement

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Folks,



Would you double-check my antenna placement? Do I have anything in the wrong place? Did I forget anything?

I am building a glass panel with 2 comm radios, and a VOR/ILS receiver. I think I'll skip the ADF and the LORAN.   So here is what I have in the way of devices, antennas, and locations.

Devices and Antennas

The VOR/ILS/Glideslope receiver, probably a GNS 430, needs a VOR+ILS antenna and a GS antenna. I believe that all three functions can be combined into a single antenna with a splitter to the two receivers, with some loss of sensitivity.
Marker beacon receiver with its own antenna. Can this be relegated to the dust bin next to the ADF?
Transponder with its own antenna
ADS-B UAT with its own antenna
Comm 1 with its own antenna
Comm 2 with its own antenna
EFIS GPS with its own antenna
ADS-B UAT GPS with its own antennaLocations

VOR/ILS/GS antenna on the bottom of the fuselage, about 8 feet aft of the transponder and UAT antennas. It would be a pain to put it up on the vertical stabilizer so I want to skip that if it is reasonable. The splitter will be behind the panel, near the GNS 430, not near the antenna.
Marker beacon, transponder, and ADS-B UAT antennas on the bottom of the fuselage, near the front.
Comm antennas on the root, about 3 feet apart.
GPS antennas on the roof.Wiring



RG 400 for the GPS antennas
RG 58C/U for everything else

Are there standard connectors for these devices, so I can order them at the same time that I order the coax? Or should I wait until I purchase each antenna and each radio to determine the right connector?

Thank you,

    -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Hello Art

1. Binning the marker beacon would be a great idea.



2. I have both GPS antennas on the front of the glareshield under the windshield. Always sees plenty of satellites and adds no drag.

3. The VOR/LOC/GS antenna placement depends on whether you are getting a V antenna or a blade. I've never seen a blade one that could be mounted on the belly, but have seen some V dipole ones that work well. Keep in mind that any antennas on the tail will get oil on them, and a big complicated antenna like the V dipole is a pain to clean around and will be broken off if you ever have someone help you wash your plane. 



Before deciding on a final placement of any of your antennas walk around your fuselage and imagine the idea there and think "Is someone going to walk into this antenna and poke an eye out, use it as a handle and break it off, kick it by accident while wandering around the aircraft...?"

I would use RG400 for all wiring. Easier to work with.



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,



Would you double-check my antenna placement? Do I have anything in the wrong place? Did I forget anything?

I am building a glass panel with 2 comm radios, and a VOR/ILS receiver. I think I'll skip the ADF and the LORAN.   So here is what I have in the way of devices, antennas, and locations.

Devices and Antennas

The VOR/ILS/Glideslope receiver, probably a GNS 430, needs a VOR+ILS antenna and a GS antenna. I believe that all three functions can be combined into a single antenna with a splitter to the two receivers, with some loss of sensitivity.
Marker beacon receiver with its own antenna. Can this be relegated to the dust bin next to the ADF?
Transponder with its own antenna
ADS-B UAT with its own antenna
Comm 1 with its own antenna
Comm 2 with its own antenna
EFIS GPS with its own antenna
ADS-B UAT GPS with its own antennaLocations

VOR/ILS/GS antenna on the bottom of the fuselage, about 8 feet aft of the transponder and UAT antennas. It would be a pain to put it up on the vertical stabilizer so I want to skip that if it is reasonable. The splitter will be behind the panel, near the GNS 430, not near the antenna.
Marker beacon, transponder, and ADS-B UAT antennas on the bottom of the fuselage, near the front.
Comm antennas on the root, about 3 feet apart.
GPS antennas on the roof.Wiring



RG 400 for the GPS antennas
RG 58C/U for everything else

Are there standard connectors for these devices, so I can order them at the same time that I order the coax? Or should I wait until I purchase each antenna and each radio to determine the right connector?

Thank you,

    -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon 

1090ES for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in.

I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one 

navcom/GS.

Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right 

behind firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly

GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of 

firewall under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I have 

both units, uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8 antennas, 3 under 

glass, 5 external. All are performing well so far.

All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe.

I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in a new 

installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need two boxes that 

talk to each other, that both have to be tested and certified and 

maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you plan on a certified 

GPS that can provide the data to the ADSB box? The difference in cost is 

negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS.



On 1/26/2017 6:20 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Folks,



 Would you double-check my antenna placement? Do I have anything in the

 wrong place? Did I forget anything?



 I am building a glass panel with 2 comm radios, and a VOR/ILS receiver.

 I think I'll skip the ADF and the LORAN.   So here is what I have in

 the way of devices, antennas, and locations.



 Devices and Antennas



   * The VOR/ILS/Glideslope receiver, probably a GNS 430, needs a VOR+ILS

     antenna and a GS antenna. I believe that all three functions can be

     combined into a single antenna with a splitter to the two receivers,

     with some loss of sensitivity.

   * Marker beacon receiver with its own antenna. Can this be relegated

     to the dust bin next to the ADF?

   * Transponder with its own antenna

   * ADS-B UAT with its own antenna

   * Comm 1 with its own antenna

   * Comm 2 with its own antenna

   * EFIS GPS with its own antenna

   * ADS-B UAT GPS with its own antenna



 Locations



   * VOR/ILS/GS antenna on the bottom of the fuselage, about 8 feet aft

     of the transponder and UAT antennas. It would be a pain to put it up

     on the vertical stabilizer so I want to skip that if it is

     reasonable. The splitter will be behind the panel, near the GNS 430,

     not near the antenna.

   * Marker beacon, transponder, and ADS-B UAT antennas on the bottom of

     the fuselage, near the front.

   * Comm antennas on the root, about 3 feet apart.

   * GPS antennas on the roof.



 Wiring



   * RG 400 for the GPS antennas

   * RG 58C/U for everything else



 Are there standard connectors for these devices, so I can order them at

 the same time that I order the coax? Or should I wait until I purchase

 each antenna and each radio to determine the right connector?



 Thank you,

     -- Art Z.



 --

 https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/



 /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,

 what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Kelly,



Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL iEFIS, one of the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an MGL comm, and a mode S transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that I understood the whole transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I have my doubts, after reading your note. 

Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B components you installed?

Thanks,

    -- Art Z.



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview with Dynon 1090ES for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver for in.

 I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each feeding one navcom/GS.

 Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out antenna right behind firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind baggage compartment on belly

 GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in front of firewall under fiberglass cowling. No marker, no ADF, no Loran (I have both units, uninstalled from earlier aircraft). So 8 antennas, 3 under glass, 5 external. All are performing well so far.

 All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe.

 I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT out unit in a new installation to meet ADSB requirements. It means you need two boxes that talk to each other, that both have to be tested and certified and maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you plan on a certified GPS that can provide the data to the ADSB box? The difference in cost is negligible if you eliminate the extra GPS. 	


-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Art, I'm pretty sure that if you have       978mhz adsb out, you still need a transponder of some sort. A 1090       ES transponder with a certified position source meets the 'out'       requirement (which means you don't need 978mhz out).

       

       An AOPA article:

 https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/what-do-i-need

       

       Charlie

       

       On 1/28/2017 4:51 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         Kelly,         

         

         Yes, it does sound pretty similar to what I plan: an MGL           iEFIS, one of the IFR certified Garmin nav/comm/gps boxes, an           MGL comm, and a mode S transponder with ADS-B in+out. I thought that           I understood the whole transponder + ADS-B stuff but now I           have my doubts, after reading your note. 

         

         

         Can you tell me which specific transponder and ADS-B           components you installed?

         

         

         Thanks,

             -- Art Z.

           

             On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:53 PM,               Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>               wrote:

                	  Quote: 	
		  -->                 AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

                 

                 I have similar equipment...GTN-650, SL30, Dynon Skyview                 with Dynon 1090ES for transponder and Dynon UAT receiver                 for in.

                 I have a Bob Archer VOR antenna in each wingtip...each                 feeding one navcom/GS.

                 Two com antennas on belly under rear seats. ADSB-out                 antenna right behind firewall. ADSB-In antenna behind                 baggage compartment on belly

                 GTN-650 GPS antenna on cabin roof. Dynon GPS antenna in                 front of firewall under fiberglass cowling. No marker,                 no ADF, no Loran (I have both units, uninstalled from                 earlier aircraft). So 8 antennas, 3 under glass, 5                 external. All are performing well so far.

                 All on RV-10 4 place mostly metal airframe.

                 I cannot see installing a mode A/C transponder and UAT                 out unit in a new installation to meet ADSB                 requirements. It means you need two boxes that talk to                 each other, that both have to be tested and certified                 and maintained. Why get separate GPS for ADSB when you                 plan on a certified GPS that can provide the data to the                 ADSB box? The difference in cost is negligible if you                 eliminate the extra GPS. 	
             

                          

             

             -- 

                                                                https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/                                          "If                       I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am                       only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?"                       Hillel

jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Art,



I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using

an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a

Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight,

NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate.  



If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a

single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.)

connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS).  With fewer connections and fewer

"inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more

reliable as well.  



But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder,

you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming

they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads

the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT

data.  Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and

Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to

integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more

expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on

your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match

the Transponder.  Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's

squawk code and set the UAT to match.  Those cost a bit more, of course.

 



The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential

points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane.  I

happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW

Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me.  I would

lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a

bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary...  



Hope that helps.



Jim Parker

------

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:54 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Excellent summary. I used Dynon (made by Trig) 1090ES ADS-B out, and 

Dynon UAT (probably also by Trig) receiver (ADS-B In). That eliminates 

the need for Mode A/C transponder. It also uses the EFIS air-data for 

pressure altitude, rather than needing a separate blind encoder.

Kelly

On 1/28/2017 5:30 PM, jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com wrote:

[quote] 



 Art,



 I'm not Kelly, but I believe he was commenting about the wisdom of using

 an all-in-one ADS-B OUT 1090ES transponder solution, versus using a

 Mode-C transponder plus a UAT ADS-B OUT transmitter (Freeflight,

 NavWorx, etc.) to meet the 2020 mandate.



 If you're doing a complete new install, it would be simpler to install a

 single-box solution (Garmin GX-335 or-445, Stratus ESG, L3 Lynx, etc.)

 connected to your IFR GPS (WAAS).  With fewer connections and fewer

 "inter-dependencies", the 1090ES solution would appear to be more

 reliable as well.



 But if you already have an IFR GPS (WAAS) and a good Mode-C transponder,

 you COULD just add something like a FreeFlight (or NavWorx, assuming

 they get their FAA mess cleaned up) dual-box UAT solution, which reads

 the Mode-C transponder broadcast, and supplements it with the ADS-B OUT

 data.  Those UAT solutions that rely on your existing GPS and

 Transponder may cost less money to install, but will be more complex to

 integrate and configure, and ongoing maintenance could be more

 expensive. Some of the UAT solutions also require a 2nd control head on

 your panel so you can set the transponder code for the ADS-B to match

 the Transponder.  Others use a "sniffer" box to read the Transponder's

 squawk code and set the UAT to match.  Those cost a bit more, of course.

 The 2-box UAT solution may cost a bit less, but will have two potential

 points of failure, with either one effectively "grounding" the plane.  I

 happen to base my airplane at an airport that is underneath the DFW

 Class Bravo airspace, so that is a big consideration for me.  I would

 lean towards the simpler solution for my airplane, even if it costs a

 bit more to begin with, but your mileage may vary...



 Hope that helps.



 Jim Parker

 ------

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR set me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver, hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need.



Cheers,

    -- Art Z.



-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Understand that no 1090ES transponder can receive more than limited 

traffic because there is not enough bandwidth available on that 

frequency. To get full ADS-B In with traffic and weather, the unit needs 

to receive both 1090ES and 978. If it only receives on 978 it will get 

all the information, but you won't receive aircraft to aircraft traffic 

from planes transmitting on 1090 ES. Dual frequency receivers are 

becoming much more common, fortunately.



On 1/28/2017 7:54 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thank you, everybody. I had thought that, regardless of the type of

 transponder, I had to have a UAT box. The AOPA ADS-B OUT SELECTOR

 <https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/ads-b-selector> set

 me straight. Between that and your guidance, I understand that I can

 install a single Mode S Extended Squitter (1090 MHz) ADS-B transceiver,

 hook it up to my approved WAAS GPS, and I will have everything that I need.



 Cheers,

     -- Art Z.



 --

 https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/



 /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,

 what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

The statement below is is somewhat misleading.  Traffic data to 1090ES

participants is absolutely NOT limited  because of bandwidth on 1090

mHz.  Air-to-air broadcasts from other 1090ES-equipped participating

aircraft within line-of-sight range will be received directly by the

1090ES receiver.  As for UAT traffic, the FAA's ground stations will

re-broadcast any UAT-only traffic data that is within the "hockey puck"

of airspace (3500 ft above and below, within 15 nm of the participating

aircraft).  



Likewise, a participating UAT-only (978 mHz aircraft would ALSO receive

the full traffic picture, since it would directly receive the air-to-air

broadcasts from other UAT participants within line-of-sight range, and

the FAA ground stations would re-transmit all of the 1090ES traffic data

that falls within the "hockey puck" of airspace surrounding that

airplane.  



So either way, ALL participating aircraft (those with ADS-B OUT

capability, whether UAT or ES) will receive ALL the pertinent TIS-B

traffic information for their airplane.



It is the FIS-B data (which includes METARS, TARs, NEXRAD, NOTAMs,

AIRMET, SIGMET, SUA, TFR, Winds & Temps Aloft, and PIREP data) that is

bandwidth intensive, and thus transmitted only over 978 mHz (UAT)

frequency.  This is a LOT of data, and the FAA had concerns about

potential "bandwidth saturation" on the 1090ES frequency, especially

near high-volume airports, etc.  Thus the ADS-B system was designed to

render the weather services only via the UAT (978 mHz) frequency.  



But some (many?) of the 1090ES transceivers also have a built-in 978 mHz

receiver (no transmitter), while others rely on the use of separate

FIS-B receiver in the aircraft.  Many "portable" receivers (Appareo

Stratus, Garmin GLO and GDL-39, Dual XGPS160, iLevil, and others)

receive both UAT and ES frequencies, and thus offer both TIS-B and FIS-B

data to their users.



Jim Parker

------

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Traffic information on 1090ES IS limited. You only get air to air and 

approach radar TIS-A. You do NOT get TIS B unless there is an additional 

978 receiver built-in. It IS due to limited bandwidth.

Do you really want to only get air to air traffic when you are outside 

of Class B areas? I call that limited.



On 1/29/2017 12:12 PM, jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com wrote:

[quote] 



 The statement below is is somewhat misleading.  Traffic data to 1090ES

 participants is absolutely NOT limited  because of bandwidth on 1090

 mHz.  Air-to-air broadcasts from other 1090ES-equipped participating

 aircraft within line-of-sight range will be received directly by the

 1090ES receiver.  As for UAT traffic, the FAA's ground stations will

 re-broadcast any UAT-only traffic data that is within the "hockey puck"

 of airspace (3500 ft above and below, within 15 nm of the participating

 aircraft).



 Likewise, a participating UAT-only (978 mHz aircraft would ALSO receive

 the full traffic picture, since it would directly receive the air-to-air

 broadcasts from other UAT participants within line-of-sight range, and

 the FAA ground stations would re-transmit all of the 1090ES traffic data

 that falls within the "hockey puck" of airspace surrounding that

 airplane.



 So either way, ALL participating aircraft (those with ADS-B OUT

 capability, whether UAT or ES) will receive ALL the pertinent TIS-B

 traffic information for their airplane.



 It is the FIS-B data (which includes METARS, TARs, NEXRAD, NOTAMs,

 AIRMET, SIGMET, SUA, TFR, Winds & Temps Aloft, and PIREP data) that is

 bandwidth intensive, and thus transmitted only over 978 mHz (UAT)

 frequency.  This is a LOT of data, and the FAA had concerns about

 potential "bandwidth saturation" on the 1090ES frequency, especially

 near high-volume airports, etc.  Thus the ADS-B system was designed to

 render the weather services only via the UAT (978 mHz) frequency.



 But some (many?) of the 1090ES transceivers also have a built-in 978 mHz

 receiver (no transmitter), while others rely on the use of separate

 FIS-B receiver in the aircraft.  Many "portable" receivers (Appareo

 Stratus, Garmin GLO and GDL-39, Dual XGPS160, iLevil, and others)

 receive both UAT and ES frequencies, and thus offer both TIS-B and FIS-B

 data to their users.



 Jim Parker

 ------

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

I beg to differ...  In addition to the TIS-B data (sourced from the ATC

radar contacts), you're also getting the ADS-R rebroadcast of UAT

traffic, and the direct air-to-air broadcast of all the 1090ES traffic. 

Here is some information that specifically explain how it works:



FAA's ADS-B website: 

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/ins_and_outs/



iPad Pilot News: 

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2012/08/understanding-ads-b-traffic/



ForeFlight article: 

https://support.foreflight.com/hc/en-us/articles/205482188-What-do-ADS-B-ADS-R-and-TIS-B-refer-to-when-displayed-with-a-traffic-target-



Jim Parker

------

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:52 am Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

You are right. I was wrong. TIS-B and ADS-R are available on 1090 

frequency.

However, older boxes, like the Garmin 330ES  only receive TIS-A. The 

Garmin 335 does not receive any TIS. Apparently some of the newer boxes 

will receive TIS-B on 1090. None of the 1090 boxes can receive FIS-B. 

(weather) without a 978 receiver.

Some of the boxes like the L3 Lynx 9000 and Garmin 345 contain both the 

out and a dual frequency In receiver to allow receiving all ADS-B 

equipped traffic directly, aircraft to aircraft, but still need the 

ground stations to see non-equipped aircraft.



To quote from Garmin: "Will the GTX 330 ES, GTX 33 ES or GTX 23 ES 

transponders display traffic via the FAA’s TIS-B ADS-B uplink? The ES 

transponders currently have the capability to uplink the FAA’s TIS-A 

traffic (consult the question below regarding differences between TIS-A 

and TIS-B traffic). There are currently no plans to update the 

transponder to uplink from TIS-B."



Basically I'm not seeing many 1090ES transponders that include a TIS-B 

or any other form of traffic receiver, except as an optional extra, and 

it makes more sense to get a dual band receiver if you are concerned 

about traffic when you are out of sight of a ground station. Dual band 

is only showing up in the newest units.

Having a portable receiver that displays on a tablet is nice, but isn't 

the same as having traffic and weather on the instrument panel.

Kelly



jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -->-List message posted by: <jim(at)poogiebearranch.com>



 I beg to differ...  In addition to the TIS-B data (sourced from the ATC

 radar contacts), you're also getting the ADS-R rebroadcast of UAT

 traffic, and the direct air-to-air broadcast of all the 1090ES traffic.

 Here is some information that specifically explain how it works:



 FAA's ADS-B website:

 https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/ins_and_outs/



 iPad Pilot News:

 http://ipadpilotnews.com/2012/08/understanding-ads-b-traffic/



 ForeFlight article:

 https://support.foreflight.com/hc/en-us/articles/205482188-What-do-ADS-B-ADS-R-and-TIS-B-refer-to-when-displayed-with-a-traffic-target-



 Jim Parker

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:49 am Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

On 01/30/2017 08:51 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Having a portable receiver that displays on a tablet is nice, but isn't

 the same as having traffic and weather on the instrument panel.


	


There are portable receivers that will interface with an EFIS mounted in

the panel.  GRT, for example, will interface with multiple portable

ADS-B receivers, including the Raspberry Pi based Stratux system, while

at the same time being able to display the ADS-B information on a tablet.



-Dj

-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - https://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - https://deej.net/glastar/

jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Kelly,



Yes, most of the older equipment doesn't include the ADS-B IN functions.

 But likewise, most of the 978 UAT stuff doesn't integrate with

panel-based equipment, either.  Trying to retro-fit an older panel to

get Traffic and Weather through "legacy" avionics (430, 530, or even

older stuff) can be challenging without going to Garmin-specific

upgrades that are not cheap.



When I upgraded a legacy system (430W and 330) to add ADS-B OUT

(basically upgraded the 330 to 330ES), I elected to just use a Stratus 2

+ ForeFlight for the ADS-B IN stuff.  Especially since I already had

both...  No brainer.  That kind of relegated the Avidyne EX-500 MFD to

just being a larger version of the 430W's map screen (along with airport

information, etc.), but keeping the cost factor manageable was important

to me.



Jim Parker

------

rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:11 am Post subject: Double Check Antenna Placement

Yes, most of the older equipment doesn't include the ADS-B IN functions.

 But likewise, most of the 978 UAT stuff doesn't integrate with

panel-based equipment, either.  Trying to retro-fit an older panel to

get Traffic and Weather through "legacy" avionics (430, 530, or even

older stuff) can be challenging without going to Garmin-specific

upgrades that are not cheap.

 

When I upgraded a legacy system (430W and 330) to add ADS-B OUT

(basically upgraded the 330 to 330ES), I elected to just use a Stratus 2

+ ForeFlight for the ADS-B IN stuff.  Especially since I already had

both...  No brainer.  That kind of relegated the Avidyne EX-500 MFD to

just being a larger version of the 430W's map screen (along with airport

information, etc.), but keeping the cost factor manageable was important

to me.

 

Jim Parker

 

              I have a GTX 320 with a blind encoder in my experimental.  My plan is to add 2020 compliant ADS-B using a SkyguardTWX unit.  My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that this unit has an antenna which receives the output from the 320 and it has in/out for UAT and in for ES.  I believe that this should give me all the features available and display on my GRT EFIS.  The total cost for the Skyguard and its antennas should be about $1500.

 

Roger

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