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Control surfaces fabric recovering

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BTLYak

Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 22

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:59 am Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

What do I need to know about recovering the ailerons, elevators, and rudder on a mid 90's Yak 52?

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"Battle Yak"

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

Any good covering system, will work fine.  There really nothing  special about their structure.  I believe the covering is rib stitched  (same as the CJ-6) but using just normal recovering procedures and following  instructions of the manufacture is really important.  When you're done make  sure you check the balance of the surface.  A surface way out of balance  may end up as a flutter problem.

  

 At OSH last I saw a company hawking a new covering system.  It was  very very simple.  You would apply a glue paste on the structure, put on  the cover, and then use an iron to 'activate' glue.  Bang! it was  done.  No stitching, no screws, no re enforcing tapes or streamlining  tapes.  NOW I am not sure if the system would stand up to the rigueur's of  acrobatics in the 52 and that was a question I forgot to ask.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  In a message dated 2/13/2017 8:00:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  btlyak1(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "BTLYak" <btlyak1(at)gmail.com>



What do    I need to know about recovering the ailerons, elevators, and rudder on a mid    90's Yak 52?



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&quot;Battle    Yak&quot;





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BTLYak

Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 22

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Control surfaces fabric recovering

The larger question is estimated cost?



Materials?



How many labor hours?

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Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

The covering is called Oratec. 

I am recovering mine on the 50 using the Stits System. The Russians use a different way to rib stitch on the elevator and rudder vs the aileron. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Feb 13, 2017, at 8:21 AM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       Any good covering system, will work fine.  There really nothing  special about their structure.  I believe the covering is rib stitched  (same as the CJ-6) but using just normal recovering procedures and following  instructions of the manufacture is really important.  When you're done make  sure you check the balance of the surface.  A surface way out of balance  may end up as a flutter problem.

  

 At OSH last I saw a company hawking a new covering system.  It was  very very simple.  You would apply a glue paste on the structure, put on  the cover, and then use an iron to 'activate' glue.  Bang! it was  done.  No stitching, no screws, no re enforcing tapes or streamlining  tapes.  NOW I am not sure if the system would stand up to the rigueur's of  acrobatics in the 52 and that was a question I forgot to ask.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  In a message dated 2/13/2017 8:00:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  btlyak1(at)gmail.com (btlyak1(at)gmail.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "BTLYak" <btlyak1(at)gmail.com (btlyak1(at)gmail.com)>



What do    I need to know about recovering the ailerons, elevators, and rudder on a mid    90's Yak 52?



--------

&quot;Battle    Yak&quot;





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466115#466115=========================   e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================

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Viperdoc

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

About 300-400 USD for supplies. You will also need a good iron (large and small). Rib stitching needles, flux for the thermometer to standardize the ironing temp and the covering supplies.  Time? I'm to many interruptions to be accurate. Left along with no hospital, wife, mother in nursing home issues, can I watch, and I need to talk to you about my medical problem before I do my flight physical questions I would be farther along. 

Get the Stits covering manual from Aircraft Spruce. Read it then decide if you want to attach it. The manual will tell you all the supplies you need along with how to use them. Having EAA friends that have covered their experimental S before helps too.

It is not rocket since.  

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 13, 2017, at 9:34 AM, BTLYak <btlyak1(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 The larger question is estimated cost?

 

 Materials?

 

 How many labor hours?

 

 --------

 &quot;Battle Yak&quot;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466123#466123

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Viperdoc

stephen.hayne

Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Control surfaces fabric recovering

I just finished STITS from Aircraft Spruce, and it cost about $750 including the PolyTone "paint" (which was almost the most expensive part).  Here is what I initially bought:



Qty	Ship	B/O	Item	Unit Price	Total Price

2	2	0	09-18400 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 4" STRAIGHT # 504	1.450	2.90

1	1	0	09-02450 STITS PINKED P103 2" TAPE 25YD	23.200	23.20

2	2	0	09-03206 3" CURVED NEEDLE	1.120	2.24

2	2	0	09-03204 2" CURVED NEEDLE	0.950	1.90

2	2	0	09-18300 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 2-1/2" CURVD	1.100	2.20

2	2	0	09-18500 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 10" # 504	3.450	6.90

1	1	0	09-18710 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 6" CURVED	2.650	2.65

1	1	0	09-18705 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 3" CURVED	1.200	1.20

1	1	0	09-02900 POLY-FIBER P-103 3" TAPE 25YD	27.800	27.80

1	1	0	09-03600 STITS REINFORCING TAPE 3/8	56.600	56.60

1	0	1	09-41300-1 CECONITE RIB LACE CORD D693 RD	45.500	0.00

1	1	0	09-00234 POLY-FIBER COLOR CHART # 50	0.000	0.00

5	5	0	09-01600 POLY-FIBER FABRIC MEDIUM 73" 2.97 OZ	11.950	59.575

2	0	2	09-04850 POLY-FIBER REDUCER RR8500 GAL	48.500	0.00

1	1	0	09-04500 POLY-FIBER POLY-SPRAY GALLON	83.600	83.60

1	1	0	09-04100 POLY-BRUSH QT. TINTED	25.750	25.75

1	1	0	09-05000 POLY-FIBER POLY-TAK CEMENT QT	27.500	27.50



I ran out of Poly-Tak and Ply-Spray and had to borrow some from a friend.  Didn't use ANY of the needles except the straight one.  Lots of tape, thread and reducer left.



I then bought a gallon of the Poly-Tone (clear) and had it tinted locally to match the Chinese Olive Drab - fairly good match.  Didn't try to paint the underside different.  Still have 1/2 gallon of the clear Polytone left, as I only mixed up a couple quarts of color.



I had never done this before, and it took about 3 weeks of afternoons... I'm fairly satisfied with the job, but I got progressively better.  Next time would be almost professional.  I'm pretty sure it is safe.  



Attached is a pic of them - didn't get the elevators in there very well.



Hope this helps.



Stephen

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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
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Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:56 am Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

They look good Stephen. It is not rocket science. Pretty easy once you get going. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 17, 2017, at 11:20 PM, stephen.hayne <stephen.hayne(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I just finished STITS from Aircraft Spruce, and it cost about $750 including the PolyTone "paint" (which was almost the most expensive part).  Here is what I initially bought:

 

 Qty    Ship    B/O    Item    Unit Price    Total Price

 2    2    0    09-18400 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 4" STRAIGHT # 504    1.450    2.90

 1    1    0    09-02450 STITS PINKED P103 2" TAPE 25YD    23.200    23.20

 2    2    0    09-03206 3" CURVED NEEDLE    1.120    2.24

 2    2    0    09-03204 2" CURVED NEEDLE    0.950    1.90

 2    2    0    09-18300 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 2-1/2" CURVD    1.100    2.20

 2    2    0    09-18500 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 10" # 504    3.450    6.90

 1    1    0    09-18710 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 6" CURVED    2.650    2.65

 1    1    0    09-18705 RIB STITCH NEEDLE 3" CURVED    1.200    1.20

 1    1    0    09-02900 POLY-FIBER P-103 3" TAPE 25YD    27.800    27.80

 1    1    0    09-03600 STITS REINFORCING TAPE 3/8    56.600    56.60

 1    0    1    09-41300-1 CECONITE RIB LACE CORD D693 RD    45.500    0.00

 1    1    0    09-00234 POLY-FIBER COLOR CHART # 50    0.000    0.00

 5    5    0    09-01600 POLY-FIBER FABRIC MEDIUM 73" 2.97 OZ    11.950    59.575

 2    0    2    09-04850 POLY-FIBER REDUCER RR8500 GAL    48.500    0.00

 1    1    0    09-04500 POLY-FIBER POLY-SPRAY GALLON    83.600    83.60

 1    1    0    09-04100 POLY-BRUSH QT. TINTED    25.750    25.75

 1    1    0    09-05000 POLY-FIBER POLY-TAK CEMENT QT    27.500    27.50

 

 I ran out of Poly-Tak and Ply-Spray and had to borrow some from a friend.  Didn't use ANY of the needles except the straight one.  Lots of tape, thread and reducer left.

 

 I then bought a gallon of the Poly-Tone (clear) and had it tinted locally to match the Chinese Olive Drab - fairly good match.  Didn't try to paint the underside different.  Still have 1/2 gallon of the clear Polytone left, as I only mixed up a couple quarts of color.

 

 I had never done this before, and it took about 3 weeks of afternoons... I'm fairly satisfied with the job, but I got progressively better.  Next time would be almost professional.  I'm pretty sure it is safe.  

 

 Attached is a pic of them - didn't get the elevators in there very well.

 

 Hope this helps.

 

 Stephen

 

 --------

 -

 Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University

    __!__    

 _____(_)_____   666CJ

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466408#466408

 

 

 

 

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Viperdoc

stephen.hayne

Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Control surfaces fabric recovering

Wow - I just watched a video of the Oratex (http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/oratex.html) and I wish I had known about it earlier.  Seems like quite the good system.  Easier and cheaper and probably more durable - check out the hammer test...



Oh, and thanks, Doc.  It wasn't rocket science, but quite nerve wracking when you really don't know what you are doing, but just following the manual and looking at the old Chinese pattern.



Stephen

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_________________
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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: Control surfaces fabric recovering

The Antonov was impressive. We had a demo at our EAA meeting a couple of years ago. The rep was not sure about it at 200 kts. He was a writer for Kit Planes. It looked good. It went on exactly like the RC aircraft I used to cover. 

Being unable to answer the 200kts question pushed me to the tried and true method of Stits covering. I in a holding pattern due to three cracked ribs on my left aileron that had been poorly field engineered by the way the RU had patched them. The trailing edge had also been Afro engineered. It had 8 cracks in it! They placed an aluminum 2 cm wide bar down  center of the trailing edge between the two ribs that the trim tab attached to. It cracked again at both attachment points for trim tab. 

Finding that answered the question of why a right snap roll would ratchet through the roll more like a 16 point roll. Currently am making hammer molds to rebuild the ribs. Then I have to find the phenolic squares that they use in the trailing edges of the ribs at the attachment points. That has slowed me again!

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 18, 2017, at 10:25 AM, stephen.hayne <stephen.hayne(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Wow - I just watched a video of the Oratex (http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/oratex.html) and I wish I had known about it earlier.  Seems like quite the good system.  Easier and cheaper and probably more durable - check out the hammer test...

 

 Oh, and thanks, Doc.  It wasn't rocket science, but quite nerve wracking when you really don't know what you are doing, but just following the manual and looking at the old Chinese pattern.

 

 Stephen

 

 --------

 -

 Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University

    __!__    

 _____(_)_____   666CJ

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466420#466420

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