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A couple of questions

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vernon.franklin(at)gmail.
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts?  Or are the front seats only 4 point?

2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as the registered manufacture.  Not to put my name on as manufacture for liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?  If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the FAA registration?

Thanks!

-- 

Vernon Franklin

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

Hi Vernon,



4-point only up front.



I know many people do the LLC thing.  I didn't but some do, so I 

wouldn't say it's un-common.  I would bet it's less than 50%, but

it's not uncommon at all.  I can't offer advice on that but others

who did it I'm sure will.

Tim

On 3/7/2017 2:19 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts?  Or are the

 front seats only 4 point?



 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as

 the registered manufacture.  Not to put my name on as manufacture for

 liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever

 sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?

 If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the

 FAA registration?



 Thanks!



 --

 Vernon Franklin

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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

On 3/7/2017 3:19 PM, Vernon Franklin       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts?            Or are the front seats only 4 point?

       

     	
     Back seats only.  I removed the tab for the crotch attach point.  If     you do that, make sure your upholsterer knows not to put the 'notch'     in the front of the seat .... as Vans plans call for.

      	  Quote: 	
		                  

         

         2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create           an LLC as the registered manufacture.  Not to put my name on           as manufacture for liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC           with the plane, if I ever sell the plane. Is this a pretty           common thing for home builders to do?  If so, any advice on           how to form the LLC and do things right with the FAA           registration?

       

     	
     I believe that you will still be the builder but the LLC will be the     owner.  I haven't got to that point yet.

     Linn

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  

         

         Thanks!

         

         

         -- 

         Vernon           Franklin

         

       

       

No virus         found in this message.

         Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

         Date: 03/07/17

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

I did the LLC thing after I built and certified the airplane.



I did it only as a liability shield ...... if that is possible.  I also have my hanger in another S corp.  If it is a single owner LLC the IRS ignores you and you have to file as a disregarded entity for tax purposes.  But, you have to be careful that you run it as a business or any hope of having any liability protection goes out the window.  But, just remember that I am not a lawyer and just another fool who built an airplane in his garage and then flys in it. 



In Utah it takes about 10 minutes to do it on line.



After several years of flying I took on a flying partner and the LLC became real handy, but it meant monthly billing (the way we agreed to doing it) etc.  I have also used the LLC for other business and that is a long story.



BTW the partner thing was great, but Uncle Sam decided to move him and now I am all alone.



Drop me a personal e-mail if you want to know more about what I am doing in this area. Email address is Rene at Felker dot Com.

Rene'

801-721-6080



--

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bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

Many do an LLC however it isn't much, if any shield from liability.  Remember, it's the builder that makes the "it's airworthy" initial logbook entry.  It's then whoever holds the repairman certificate or an A&P that annually does the same thing.  So while an LLC might be the owning entity, it's an individual signing it off as airworthy.  That said, having an LLC as the owner might come in handy when selling the plane.  You can just sell the LLC and the plane continues to be owned by the same entity.  Potential tax advantages there because it won't trigger the recipient's state's tax man to tax the airplane.

I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express nor am I an attorney so the above is simply my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

Bob



On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 2:50 PM Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)>  I did the LLC thing after I built and certified the airplane.  I did it only as a liability shield ...... if that is possible.  I also have my hanger in another S corp.  If it is a single owner LLC the IRS ignores you and you have to file as a disregarded entity for tax purposes.  But, you have to be careful that you run it as a business or any hope of having any liability protection goes out the window.  But, just remember that I am not a lawyer and just another fool who built an airplane in his garage and then flys in it.  In Utah it takes about 10 minutes to do it on line.  After several years of flying I took on a flying partner and the LLC became real handy, but it meant monthly billing (the way we agreed to doing it) etc.  I have also used the LLC for other business and that is a long story.  BTW the partner thing was great, but Uncle Sam decided to move him and now I am all alone.  Drop me a personal e-mail if you want to know more about what I am doing in this area. Email address is Rene at Felker dot Com.   Rene' 801-721-6080  --

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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: A couple of questions

1. Stock kit has no crotch strap attach point up front. A few people have made an attach point to the bottom of the seat frame (I know no details).

2. LLC laws vary by state, as do liability laws. If you are the sole pilot an LLC will offer very limited protection, as after an accident the PIC and owners will all be sued, and, in most states ("joint and several liability") a no-asset LLC won't help. However, if you have a partner and he has the accident, having an LLC may provide you with some protection. Here in CA an LLC has another function. All aircraft sales are subject to the 9% state sales tax. If an LLC owns the airplane, the airplane ownership doesn't change so no tax. You just sell the stock in the LLC (said sale is subject to capital gains tax). OTOH, CA charges a minimum annual tax on LLCs, I think it's $750/yr. You have to run the numbers and decide what is best for you. As the sole pilot, I don't have an LLC.

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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

flyboy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

An LLC isn't going to provide any real shield from liability, so that would be a poor reason to do it.  In this case, it's trivial to, "pierce the corporate veil," as lawyers say. Mine's an LLC simply because I've got a partner, and it's much easier for two people to own an LLC than for two people to own a plane.  If I were the sole owner, I wouldn't bother.

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: A couple of questions

I have dealt with the LLC issue quite a few times for different planes, in different states and for different reasons. 



1. The main benefit in many states is sales tax when it sells. As others have said, you sell stock instead of the plane so there is no sales tax. This can be a selling benefit to the buyer. 



2. It does make partnerships much easier. 



3. Some FSDO's/DAR's have let an LLC be the builder. This may shield from some liability. The individual may sign off the condition inspection, but the last condition inspection holds the most liability. This benefit is mainly for you after you sell the plane. I don't know how the repairman certificate would be possible in this scenario, and really don't see how it could possibly meet the regs as legal, but I know it does happen. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc. 

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 7, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts?  Or are the front seats only 4 point?

 

 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as the registered manufacture.  Not to put my name on as manufacture for liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?  If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the FAA registration?

 

 Thanks!

 

 -- 

 Vernon Franklin

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:27 am Post subject: Re: A couple of questions

An LLC is a waste of time for an individual, but is handy for a partnership. As far as the tax man, they will find out when the LLC changes names, or owners. Everything is done by computers, now.

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