Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Overhaul

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Overhaul - New

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself.Â  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

Jim,



I hope that you follow Mike Busch on engine care and maintenance.



The 2000 point is n/a if you do the things that he recommends, and do the overhaul based â€œon conditionâ€.



Google him up and read his articles on TBO overhauls, care and routine maintenance.



grumpy



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 17, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 Questions for the group:

 

 I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

 

 (1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

 

 (2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

 

 (3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

 

 (4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

 

 Any comments on any specific option?

 

 Thanks, Jim Combs

 N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

Depends on the availability of quality overhaulers within reasonable distance. 



Sure, you can do it yourself. There are a lot of pitfalls. Lycoming doesn't make all the information available in one place.



While they have done a little updating to the overhaul manual, there are still 1000+ service bulletins that you have to see if they apply.



There have been a lot of parts changes over the years to extend TBO, etc.



I've done a few engines, partly due to economic reasons at the time. 



If you supply the core engine, you should be able to get a quality overhaul for well under $40K. 



You can also look at Van Bortel and a couple others that offer exchange engines for a claimed $300 over invoice.

http://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/engines.asp?searchParm=IO-540-D4A5&catID=33



That gets you a factory overhauled engine for $37K



-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 6:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself.Â  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

Faced with needing an IO540, I went with BPE.  Too many souls on board for me to do the rebuild (like I did on the engine for my RV-6).  With a good core, your rebuild price should be in the low '30's.   You could do it for <$20k if you did it yourself.  



Another option would be to do the legwork yourself and have a shop or experienced A&P help with the assembly process.



Some of the dilemma goes back to "How good do you think your core is" and "How much do you think Lycoming's price reductions will reduce rebuild costs?".



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 17, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 Questions for the group:

 

 I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

 

 (1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

 

 (2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

 

 (3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

 

 (4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

 

 Any comments on any specific option?

 

 Thanks, Jim Combs

 N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

If it was me  

(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4) 

  

Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RV10-List: Overhaul - New 

   

   

Questions for the group: 

  

  

  

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options: 

  

  

  

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K) 

  

  

  

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K) 

  

  

  

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ??? 

  

  

  

(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming. 

  

  

  

Any comments on any specific option? 

  

  

  

Thanks, Jim Combs 

  

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

Ok so stupid question: Â What makes the engine need to be overhauled?Â  I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change.Â  Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues?Â 



Never been down this road before.

Jim CÂ 

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:03 AM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          

If it was me  

(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4) 

Â  

Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done  

Â  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Combs

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Overhaul - New 

Â   

Â   

Questions for the group: 

  

Â  

  

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options: 

  

Â  

  

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K) 

  

Â  

  

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K) 

  

Â  

  

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ??? 

  

Â  

  

(4) Overhaul it myself.Â  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming. 

  

Â  

  

Any comments on any specific option? 

  

Â  

  

Thanks, Jim Combs 

  

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

As EAA members we have various webinars, one happens to be exactly what you are asking 😉 

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1429764450001 

Pascal 

   

From: Jim Combs (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:34 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhaul - New 

 

  

Ok so stupid question:  What makes the engine need to be overhauled?  I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change.  Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues?    

  

  

Never been down this road before. 

  

  

  

Jim C  

  

   

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:03 AM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		     

If it was me  

(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4) 

  

Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Combs

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RV10-List: Overhaul - New 

   

   

Questions for the group: 

  

  

  

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options: 

  

  

  

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K) 

  

  

  

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K) 

  

  

  

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ??? 

  

  

  

(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming. 

  

  

  

Any comments on any specific option? 

  

  

  

Thanks, Jim Combs 

  

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Overhaul - New

 	  Jim Combs wrote: 	
		  Ok so stupid question: Â What makes the engine need to be overhauled?Â  I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change.Â  Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues?Â 



 	




It really is a judgement call. Sometimes compressions will get poor, sometimes oil consumption will go up. Fortunately it is rare to have a catastrophic failure, but the odds probably increase a bit as you go further and further past TBO.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

Usually it's exactly what Bob mentions below.  Many of the 'other' parts are

just IRAN (Inspect/Repair/as necessary) during an overhaul anyway. Usually

the crank/cam/case/accessory gears, etc.. all get re-used themselves.  Same

with pushrods, conrods, tappets, plungers, etc..



Engines that are often flown frequently outlast engines that sit (especially

on the top end).



Cheers,

Stein





--

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

I've never been down that road either but I intend to follow Busch's 

advice and consider 2000 hours just a milestone.



Given that you've flown regularly and probably put most/all the hours on 

it personally, you would seem to be a prime candidate for taking an 

on-condition approach.



Re a DIY overhaul: I attended Lycoming engine school, both classes, 

which include an disassembly/assembly hands-on lab .  On one hand, I 

know I could do a decent job given patience and time. On the other I've 

gained great respect for those individuals that DIY.  It's no where near 

the size and scope of kit building but there's less room for mistakes 

and carelessness. The Lycoming class gave me the confidence for self 

maintenance and management. If I were to do a DIY, the class would be a 

prerequisite but I'm not going down that path.  I recommend that class 

for owner/self maintainers and DIY wannabes.



Whoever said, "the information required for a Lycoming overhaul is not 

all in one place" knows their stuff, amen.



Bill "I'm planning on getting well past 2,000 hours BO" Watson



On 3/17/2017 10:00 AM, John Miller wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jim,



 I hope that you follow Mike Busch on engine care and maintenance.



 The 2000 point is n/a if you do the things that he recommends, and do the overhaul based â€œon conditionâ€.



 Google him up and read his articles on TBO overhauls, care and routine maintenance.



 grumpy




	


---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

https://www.avast.com/antivirus

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.

However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it.  If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.

IMHO!

LINN





Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas.

-------- Original message --------

From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> 

Date: 03/17/2017  9:55 AM  (GMT-05:00) 

To rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject RV10-List: Overhaul - New 

 

Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

jerry_stark(at)prodigy.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

FYI:

 

If you really need to rebuild it I would consider talking with Barret In Tulsa.  Not that much higher cost but they do a better balance, in my opinion, check with them. Also they do work for a few aerobatic pilots.  People notice that my engine runs very smoothly at low rpm. Very satisfied!

 

A lot depends on you, when you think "you" need to do the rebuild.  

       From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:18 PM

 Subject: RE: Overhaul - New

  

 

Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.



However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it.  If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.

IMHO!

LINN

Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas.-------- Original message --------From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> Date: 03/17/2017  9:55 AM  (GMT-05:00) To rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject Overhaul - New  Questions for the group:



I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:



(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)



(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)



(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???



(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.



Any comments on any specific option?



Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: Overhaul - New

I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		     FYI:

  

 If you really need to rebuild it I would consider talking with Barret In Tulsa.  Not that much higher cost but they do a better balance, in my opinion,  check with them. Also they do work for a few aerobatic pilots.  People notice that my engine runs very smoothly at low rpm. Very satisfied!

  

 A lot depends on you, when you think "you" need to do the rebuild.  

 

 

      From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)>

 To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:18 PM

 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Overhaul - New

 

 

   Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.

  

 However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it.  If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.

 IMHO!

 LINN

  

  

 Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas.   -------- Original message -------- From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)>  Date: 03/17/2017 9:55 AM (GMT-05:00)  To rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)  Subject RV10-List: Overhaul - New      Questions for the group:

  

 I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

  

 (1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

  

 (2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

  

 (3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

  

 (4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

  

 Any comments on any specific option?

  

 Thanks, Jim Combs

 N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

No question BPA does superb overhauls. There are a dozen or so top notch rebuilders around the country. Mine was produced by Lycon Engines in Visalia, CA. I get comments from almost all pilots who hear it taxi by or idle at how smooth it sounds. I suggest that quality shops that are within say 3 hours flying distance are a bit easier to work with, because of proximity, they are probably familiar with your climate and elevation and can tune to that. Not to mention that if the unusual problem crops up, it is easier for all to get the builder and the engine back together to resolve the issue.



I will also suggest that a shop that does nothing but engines is going to do a better job that is more likely to reach TBO than one you do yourself. You will get some warranty, something you can't provide to yourself. I have the knowledge, license and experience to do an overhaul, but if I have the time and money, I would rather one of the expert shops do the job.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: Overhaul - New

Amen to all of this. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Sent from my iPad



On Mar 19, 2017, at 8:00 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  No question BPA does superb overhauls. There are a dozen or so top notch rebuilders around the country. Mine was produced by Lycon Engines in Visalia, CA. I get comments from almost all pilots who hear it taxi by or idle at how smooth it sounds. I suggest that quality shops that are within say 3 hours flying distance are a bit easier to work with, because of proximity, they are probably familiar with your climate and elevation and can tune to that. Not to mention that if the unusual problem crops up, it is easier for all to get the builder and the engine back together to resolve the issue.



I will also suggest that a shop that does nothing but engines is going to do a better job that is more likely to reach TBO than one you do yourself. You will get some warranty, something you can't provide to yourself. I have the knowledge, license and experience to do an overhaul, but if I have the time and money, I would rather one of the expert shops do the job.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum