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Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Europa forum members,



I apologize in advanced but I may need the forums help to identify some of the parts on kit A291 (I'm sure Marty will also chime in). I have been able to do well with most of them but I haven't been able to identify some of the parts I have.



One part I haven't been able to identify is this I include a picture of. It is a long slender part made of glass with a wood core at the wide end.

Another question I have is regarding epoxies that can be used on this airplane. My preference is for the MGS epoxies and it is what I was using in the Cozy. I started using L285 but when it became hard to get and expensive due to the Hazmat classification I switched to the L335 which is also approved for all aspects of the Cozy construction. A littler harder to use than L285 (slightly thicker) but a good option given the price of L285. I found during a search of the list that L285 is OK for the Europa but is the L335 also approved? Can these epoxies be used in lieu of the Araldite 420? Is there official documentation on the use of these alternatives on the Europa? If the Araldite must be used, what are good sources for it?



All info may be available online, I just need some guidance getting started with the right references.



Thanks for the help.

Chris

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Unidentified long slender glass part

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Thats the sternpost, along the rear of the vert stb, that the rudder hinges attached to and the tailwheel spring goes through (thus the hole).



Arildite 420 is the adhesive for the bonding of the prepreg parts. Huntsman sells it in the US. Aeropoxy is used for layups on the Europa.



Cheers,

Pete

A239

Ottawa, CA



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 16, 2017, at 11:14 PM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Europa forum members,

 

 I apologize in advanced but I may need the forums help to identify some of the parts on kit A291 (I'm sure Marty will also chime in). I have been able to do well with most of them but I haven't been able to identify some of the parts I have.

 

 One part I haven't been able to identify is this I include a picture of. It is a long slender part made of glass with a wood core at the wide end.

 

 

 Another question I have is regarding epoxies that can be used on this airplane. My preference is for the MGS epoxies and it is what I was using in the Cozy. I started using L285 but when it became hard to get and expensive due to the Hazmat classification I switched to the L335 which is also approved for all aspects of the Cozy construction. A littler harder to use than L285 (slightly thicker) but a good option given the price of L285. I found during a search of the list that L285 is OK for the Europa but is the L335 also approved? Can these epoxies be used in lieu of the Araldite 420? Is there official documentation on the use of these alternatives on the Europa? If the Araldite must be used, what are good sources for it?

 

 All info may be available online, I just need some guidance getting started with the right references.

 

 Thanks for the help.

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468557#468557

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/20170415_120853_resized_121.jpg

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Oh, and aeropoxy is avail from aircraft spruce.



420 is fantastic stuff btw. Super strong adhesion to cured epoxy, and useful for all sorts of applications beyond the europa kit as I've discovered over the years.



Cheers,

Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 16, 2017, at 11:31 PM, Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:

 

 Thats the sternpost, along the rear of the vert stb, that the rudder hinges attached to and the tailwheel spring goes through (thus the hole).

 

 Arildite 420 is the adhesive for the bonding of the prepreg parts. Huntsman sells it in the US. Aeropoxy is used for layups on the Europa.

 

 Cheers,

 Pete

 A239

 Ottawa, CA

 

> On Apr 16, 2017, at 11:14 PM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Europa forum members,

> 

> I apologize in advanced but I may need the forums help to identify some of the parts on kit A291 (I'm sure Marty will also chime in). I have been able to do well with most of them but I haven't been able to identify some of the parts I have.

> 

> One part I haven't been able to identify is this I include a picture of. It is a long slender part made of glass with a wood core at the wide end.

> 

> 

> Another question I have is regarding epoxies that can be used on this airplane. My preference is for the MGS epoxies and it is what I was using in the Cozy. I started using L285 but when it became hard to get and expensive due to the Hazmat classification I switched to the L335 which is also approved for all aspects of the Cozy construction. A littler harder to use than L285 (slightly thicker) but a good option given the price of L285. I found during a search of the list that L285 is OK for the Europa but is the L335 also approved? Can these epoxies be used in lieu of the Araldite 420? Is there official documentation on the use of these alternatives on the Europa? If the Araldite must be used, what are good sources for it?

> 

> All info may be available online, I just need some guidance getting started with the right references.

> 

> Thanks for the help.

> Chris

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468557#468557

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Attachments: 

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/20170415_120853_resized_121.jpg

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Chris,



Aeropoxy PR2032 is the epoxy used in US kits.  



Araldite 420 is available from Bud Yerly or Sky Geek.  



Jim & Heather

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Thanks on identifying the Sternpost. Now I remember that for a brief moment I though about that (due to the xsection). But I didn't make the correlation. Thanks again.



Also thanks for the reference to Bud and Sky Geek.



Regards,

Chris

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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:52 am Post subject: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

On 2017-04-17, at 04:14, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Another question I have is regarding epoxies that can be used on this airplane. My preference is for the MGS epoxies and it is what I was using in the Cozy. I started using L285 but when it became hard to get and expensive due to the Hazmat classification I switched to the L335 which is also approved for all aspects of the Cozy construction. A littler harder to use than L285 (slightly thicker) but a good option given the price of L285. I found during a search of the list that L285 is OK for the Europa but is the L335 also approved? Can these epoxies be used in lieu of the Araldite 420?


	




Chris - it’s important to understand the difference between the various epoxies. I think that all those you quote above are laminating epoxies for use in hand layups of glass-fibre structures. Araldite 420 (AKA Redux) is a different animal - it’s a structural adhesive with some gap-filling properties. I understand it incorporates some rubbery particles which provide minor gap-filling and impact resistance. You must use it (I don’t know of any equivalent) for such jobs as bonding the cockpit module into the fuselage bottom half, bonding on the aft wing skin, and bonding on the fuselage top half among others. A laminating epoxy will not provide the required structural strength for these bonds.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Recognize this part? Epoxy question.

Thanks Rowland. I would never dare to change the epoxy that is called out for the construction of the kit. If the right epoxy is available (which seems to be the case for the Araldite 420). Then that is what I will use. But I ask since it is my experience that over the years, kit manufacturers (or whatever organization takes over if the manufacturer is no longer around) tests and approves different epoxies as the years go by. I wanted to be clear on the current state of recommended epoxies (and well, also hoping to be able to use MGS as much as possible since my pump is set for that).



This has been particularly true with the Rutan style aircraft where epoxies keep changing over the years. And in the case of bonding, they are used with the addition of fillers such as flox.



Obviously, for laminating applications were it seems MGS L285 is approved, I will be using that, even with the additional cost. I just happen to like it a lot.



Chris

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