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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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 Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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Well Kolbers, it's like this...
My Firestar has Azusa Tri-Star 6 inch aluminum wheels on it. I want to keep the Azusa wheels because I can change a tire out in the field without having to have a big hydraulic tire changing machine (and Mariachi music in the background).
I just bought a beautiful set of Tracy O'Brien hydraulic brakes for it. I want to use the Desser Tire Co.'s new 21 inch 8.00 x 6 "oversize tundra" tires. With the long gear legs and the big tires, I'll need an oxygen bottle to climb into the seat 
Boyd was kind enough to relate a story to me, about these tires not seating correctly on the wheel. Apparently he had a set of these tires that he could spin by hand on the wheel. That ain't right in my book either.
So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem.
That still didn't sound completely legit to me. Thousands of ultralights and light airplanes have flown on Azusa wheels for many years. And other "6 inch" tires seem to work just fine.
So now I'm confused (again???) as to whether the Desser tires are the problem or the Azusa wheels are the problem.
Question 1 - Have other Kolbers with Azusa wheels had problems with the wheels not "seating" on the tires, and hav ing the tires spin under braking?
Question 2 - Has anyone had problems with the Desser 21-8.00 x 6 oversize tundra tires on any other TWO-PIECE wheels?
Question 3 - Is there a known, good, light weight, off-road alternative tire to the Desser 21 inch tire for someone who wants large diameter tires? I have read on the Kolb list months ago about how SOME of the Carlisle tires are way out of balance, and how some golf cart tires work well and some don't, etc.
After the money I invested in the O'Brien brakes,a nd the money I would have to spend to get different wheels and axles... I would PREFER to keep the Azusa wheels I have.
With ALL due respect to those selling or flying with one piece wheels I am NOT interested in one piece "spun" wheels. There are no tire shops at the places where I plan to land my Kolb
Anyone with experience or knowledge on this particular problem using Azusa wheels , I'm all ears!
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Polyester cloth
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM
Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Thanks Rick - good memories. I also
recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I
got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed
to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model
airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and
clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue
dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it
and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk.
Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is
on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if
I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it
would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and
told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper
angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust
line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as
stable as you could ask for.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is
wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468350#468350
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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Hi Bill,
I can't directly address your specific components, but in 'off-roading'
(both automotive and aircraft), it's fairly common to run screws through
the rims into the beads of the tires. When running very low pressures,
it is possible to spin the tire on the rim, or even unseat the bead, if
there's significant side load on the tire. I've even done it in a golf
cart, when I got lazy & let the tire pressure get too low.
Charlie
On 4/12/2017 6:25 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: |
Well Kolbers, it's like this...
My Firestar has Azusa Tri-Star 6 inch aluminum wheels on it. I want to keep the Azusa wheels because I can change a tire out in the field without having to have a big hydraulic tire changing machine (and Mariachi music in the background).
I just bought a beautiful set of Tracy O'Brien hydraulic brakes for it. I want to use the Desser Tire Co.'s new 21 inch 8.00 x 6 "oversize tundra" tires. With the long gear legs and the big tires, I'll need an oxygen bottle to climb into the seat
Boyd was kind enough to relate a story to me, about these tires not seating correctly on the wheel. Apparently he had a set of these tires that he could spin by hand on the wheel. That ain't right in my book either.
So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem.
That still didn't sound completely legit to me. Thousands of ultralights and light airplanes have flown on Azusa wheels for many years. And other "6 inch" tires seem to work just fine.
So now I'm confused (again???) as to whether the Desser tires are the problem or the Azusa wheels are the problem.
Question 1 - Have other Kolbers with Azusa wheels had problems with the wheels not "seating" on the tires, and hav ing the tires spin under braking?
Question 2 - Has anyone had problems with the Desser 21-8.00 x 6 oversize tundra tires on any other TWO-PIECE wheels?
Question 3 - Is there a known, good, light weight, off-road alternative tire to the Desser 21 inch tire for someone who wants large diameter tires? I have read on the Kolb list months ago about how SOME of the Carlisle tires are way out of balance, and how some golf cart tires work well and some don't, etc.
After the money I invested in the O'Brien brakes,a nd the money I would have to spend to get different wheels and axles... I would PREFER to keep the Azusa wheels I have.
With ALL due respect to those selling or flying with one piece wheels I am NOT interested in one piece "spun" wheels. There are no tire shops at the places where I plan to land my Kolb
Anyone with experience or knowledge on this particular problem using Azusa wheels , I'm all ears!
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 4/12/17, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: Polyester cloth
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2017, 2:33 PM
Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Thanks Rick - good memories. I also
recovered an Easy Riser with polyester dress sheath, guess I
got lucky. I was so ignorant I didn't know you were supposed
to use heat to shrink it; I treated it like a big model
airplane and used enough clothespins, small weights and
clamps that it was basically pretty tight once the glue
dried. Then I brushed a couple coats of nitrate dope on it
and it shrank up just like brushing Aero-Gloss on silk.
Bought it used from Glen Rinck (who is
on the FB U/L list) but since he was heavier than I was, if
I hit a thermal under power and the seat unweighted, it
would pitch over. Pretty scary. Called Chuck Slusarczyk and
told him what I was doing and he gave me all the proper
angles and measurements to rig the engine position/thrust
line so it wouldn't kill me. From then on it flew just as
stable as you could ask for.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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I too have the new tundra tires waiting to be mounted, but what I am
waiting on is a new set of rims from Matco. I currently have Matco
hyd. brakes on the plane, and thought that I would keep my current
800X6 tires in reserve for a reason that escapes me at the moment. So
I popped for the new "heavier" spun Matco wheels, that are on back
order, for about three weeks now..
I have the 5 inch O'Brian mech brakes that I had set up with hand
brakes prior to changing to the Hydraulic ones. For what it is worth I
think the hand brakes are better. No much, but a hell of a lot less
hassle.
I tried to run the 800x6 tires with fairly low air pressure - 6-8 lbs,
and spun a tire, shearing off the air nipple. So I got some tire
screws and drilled 6 holes in the rims both sides and screwed the rims
to the tire. 6 per side. It worked fine.
I just went out and took an Azuza rim apart and stuck it in the Tundra
850x6 tire. If you push it so that the ribs that you can see on the
rim engage, it does snap in and you cannot "easily" turn it. I do not
trust it to not spin however, so if I use these rims again, I will
screw them to the tire. If I do decide to wait for Matco to finally
produce the rims that I have already paid for, I will also screw them
to the rim as well rather than take a chance on spinning them.
The attachments are of the 800x6 air tracks with 6 lbs of air and screws.
The other is of the "ribs" in an Azuza rim that is apparently designed
to keep the tire from spinning.
The screws are from JEGs and are designated for the purpose of
screwing the tire to the rim. Therefore they cost a lot more than a
regular sheet metal 3/4 in screw. The holes in the rim are small
enough for the screw to cut threads. Just in case you decide to go
with the regular screws.
You get to make your own decision.
Larry
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem.
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mojaveclimber
Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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Bill I read your discussion regarding Tundra tires. My thoughts are that light aircraft tires need to be tubeless. The advantage is one can run low tire pressure and not rip the valve stem out of the tube accelerating the tire and wheel upon landing.
To my knowledge no tubeless system exist, and this is an opportunity for an enterprising individual to design and market a tubeless system.
I fly a Kolb Mk3/ Rotax 582
Jim
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I too have the new tundra tires waiting to be mounted, but what I am
waiting on is a new set of rims from Matco. I currently have Matco
hyd. brakes on the plane, and thought that I would keep my current
800X6 tires in reserve for a reason that escapes me at the moment. So
I popped for the new "heavier" spun Matco wheels, that are on back
order, for about three weeks now..
I have the 5 inch O'Brian mech brakes that I had set up with hand
brakes prior to changing to the Hydraulic ones. For what it is worth I
think the hand brakes are better. No much, but a hell of a lot less
hassle.
I tried to run the 800x6 tires with fairly low air pressure - 6-8 lbs,
and spun a tire, shearing off the air nipple. So I got some tire
screws and drilled 6 holes in the rims both sides and screwed the rims
to the tire. 6 per side. It worked fine.
I just went out and took an Azuza rim apart and stuck it in the Tundra
850x6 tire. If you push it so that the ribs that you can see on the
rim engage, it does snap in and you cannot "easily" turn it. I do not
trust it to not spin however, so if I use these rims again, I will
screw them to the tire. If I do decide to wait for Matco to finally
produce the rims that I have already paid for, I will also screw them
to the rim as well rather than take a chance on spinning them.
The attachments are of the 800x6 air tracks with 6 lbs of air and screws.
The other is of the "ribs" in an Azuza rim that is apparently designed
to keep the tire from spinning.
The screws are from JEGs and are designated for the purpose of
screwing the tire to the rim. Therefore they cost a lot more than a
regular sheet metal 3/4 in screw. The holes in the rim are small
enough for the screw to cut threads. Just in case you decide to go
with the regular screws.
You get to make your own decision.
Larry
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
>
> So I called Desser tire Co. I asked the guy whether these tires should spin on the wheel. He said yes they do spin until you put air in them, and then you can't spin them. But this does NOT match my experience with putting wheels and tires together on my Cessna 172. Then I said I was putting these tires on Azusa wheels. He called me back 30 minutes later, said he went and checked with someone in the engineering department, and that yes they did have problems with Azusa wheels because they were too "flimsy". I asked what that had to do with their tire fitting on a 6 inch wheel. He said that the Azusa wheels were "not built to spec" and that's why they had problems. Put these tires on Matco wheels and there's no problem.
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
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GeoB
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:25 am Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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| Quote: | " Is there a known, good, light weight, off-road alternative tire"
|
I am a total nube and know nuthin, however I read somewhere that a fella
went to a GA shop and asked for old tires. He found some large ones that
were not safe for GA but worked fine for light weight ultralights.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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GeoB
"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" |
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery |
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|
Are you the same George "Chip" Bearden that flew contest sailplanes?
Bill Berle (Contest # VB back in a previous century)
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/18/17, George Bearden <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: ANOTHER Wheel and Tire Mystery
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2017, 2:25 AM
Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
> " Is there a known, good, light
weight, off-road alternative tire"
I am a total nube and know nuthin,
however I read somewhere that a fella
went to a GA shop and asked for old
tires. He found some large ones that
were not safe for GA but worked fine
for light weight ultralights.
The Kolb-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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