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Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

I've wired my airplane based on the Z-17 diagram, which uses no master 

contactor, a PM alternator and crowbar OV adapted for that alternator.  

Notably, Z-17 omits the panel mounted OV warning lamp which is activated 

by the OV relay being tripped- the lamp is wired to the normally closed 

contact on the relay, as shown on the diagram which came with the 

alternator.



Today I applied power to the panel for the first time, and while no 

spoke escaped, I now know why Z-17 omits this lamp- without a master 

contactor, this lamp is illuminated constantly when the master switch is 

off and only goes off when power is applied to the alternator control 

relay.  I would like to use this lamp on the panel, but the only fix I 

can noodle out is to run the lamp wire through a switch, probably using 

a 3-pole for the master switch (which now controls both battery and 

alternator on one switch.)



Has anyone else tackled this with a different solution?



Jeff Point



Milwaukee

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

At 04:57 PM 5/7/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com>



 I've wired my airplane based on the Z-17 diagram, which uses no master contactor, a PM alternator and crowbar OV adapted for that alternator.  

 Notably, Z-17 omits the panel mounted OV warning lamp which is activated by the OV relay being tripped- the lamp is wired to the normally closed contact on the relay, as shown on the diagram which came with the alternator.



 Today I applied power to the panel for the first time, and while no spoke escaped, I now know why Z-17 omits this lamp- without a master contactor, this lamp is illuminated constantly when the master switch is off and only goes off when power is applied to the alternator control relay.  I would like to use this lamp on the panel, but the only fix I can noodle out is to run the lamp wire through a switch, probably using a 3-pole for the master switch (which now controls both battery and alternator on one switch.)



 Has anyone else tackled this with a different solution? 	


   Z-17 has a recommended solution. Active notification

   of low voltage in the form of sensor and light.



   Eric Jones has a LV Warn product   http://tinyurl.com/yj7g5jh



   I'll have a replacement for the discontinued AEC9005

   product later this year.



   You can built your own from details on my website.

    http://tinyurl.com/6mvso29



   No doubt there are other options out there.



 



 

   Bob . . .

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

Perhaps a LED (with series resistor) in parallel with the 5 amp circuit breaker.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Has anyone else tackled this with a different solution?

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_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

At 09:02 PM 5/7/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 Perhaps a LED (with series resistor) in parallel with the 5 amp circuit breaker. 	


   Excellent thought . . . only one concern . . .

   and it's a minor one.  Current demand by any

   light connected across the breaker should be

   LESS than the dropout current for the relay.



   I have some exemplar S704 plastic relays here

   on which I've measured a dropout current on

   the order of 0.04 amps. This might be a good

   application for the indicator lamp I just

   featured on my 'trivia dump'. It draws

   0.012 amps at 12v.



   If you'd like to try this lamp, shoot me an

   address and I'll mail you one.  



 

 

   Bob . . .

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

Thanks Bob. Thinking this through some more- since I have an engine monitor with alarms and setable limits, I could simply have an alarm trigger when voltage drops below a certain point, say 14 volts, indicating an alternator out and battery only operations. A check of the alt circuit breaker could diagnose if the condition was caused by a crowbar trip or some other failure... although in flight it makes little difference since your on battery power either way. 

Is there any real advantage to having a dedicated OV trip warning light?  I can't seem to find any. 

Jeff



Sent from my iPad



On May 7, 2017, at 7:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 04:57 PM 5/7/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)>



 I've wired my airplane based on the Z-17 diagram, which uses no master contactor, a PM alternator and crowbar OV adapted for that alternator.  

 Notably, Z-17 omits the panel mounted OV warning lamp which is activated by the OV relay being tripped- the lamp is wired to the normally closed contact on the relay, as shown on the diagram which came with the alternator.



 Today I applied power to the panel for the first time, and while no spoke escaped, I now know why Z-17 omits this lamp- without a master contactor, this lamp is illuminated constantly when the master switch is off and only goes off when power is applied to the alternator control relay.  I would like to use this lamp on the panel, but the only fix I can noodle out is to run the lamp wire through a switch, probably using a 3-pole for the master switch (which now controls both battery and alternator on one switch.)



 Has anyone else tackled this with a different solution? 	


   Z-17 has a recommended solution. Active notification

   of low voltage in the form of sensor and light.



   Eric Jones has a LV Warn product   http://tinyurl.com/yj7g5jh



   I'll have a replacement for the discontinued AEC9005

   product later this year.



   You can built your own from details on my website.

    http://tinyurl.com/6mvso29



   No doubt there are other options out there.



 



 

   Bob . . .

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am Post subject: Z-17 and over voltage warning lamp

At 07:38 PM 5/8/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks Bob. Thinking this through some more- since I have an engine monitor with alarms and setable limits, I could simply have an alarm trigger when voltage drops below a certain point, say 14 volts, indicating an alternator out and battery only operations. A check of the alt circuit breaker could diagnose if the condition was caused by a crowbar trip or some other failure... although in flight it makes little difference since your on battery power either way. 



 Is there any real advantage to having a dedicated OV trip warning light?  I can't seem to find any. 	


   As long as you have ACTIVE notification of some

   type, the design goal is met.



   Most span-can drivers don't know their alternator

   is off line until stuff on the panel starts going

   dark.  You need to know . . . and implement plan-B

   within mere minutes . . . there are lots of ways

   to make that happen.



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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