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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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 Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:59 am Post subject: Insurance |
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So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring.  Knowing that I'm not going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else.  Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: Insurance |
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It depends on what you want to protect, and whether you want to risk the
insurance considering your aircraft "totaled" where it really wouldn't
be if insured for the market value. Generally, insurance guidelines for
a "total" are around 60-65% of the insured value, because they are
looking at salvage value, etc.
I considered what the kit, engine, avionics, etc. cost me, with no value
put on my time and labor, to come up with what I wanted to insure for.
Hull coverage is generally a percentage of stated value, adjusted for
risk evaluation of pilot(s). So my RV-10, that is worth around 4 times
what my previous Mooney was, cost me about $600 a year more to insure
than the Mooney did, even though the risks to the RV are somewhat less,
given fixed gear vs retract. Most older retracts are totaled if they
have a gear up, due to cost of prop replacement and engine teardown.
Usually cost to repair airframe isn't that bad.
Also keep in mind that usually there are limitations on coverage for the
first 5 or 10 hours, and that rates likely will come down after you and
the plane have 100 hours.
On 5/11/2017 6:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
| Quote: | So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I
hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K
per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not
going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field,
I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or
something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what
I have in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy
a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in
my build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: Insurance |
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You should have at least told us what the quote was????
Don Mc
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 9:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Don A. McDonald
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: Insurance |
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Hull value is everything. So is time in type. If you don't have
an instrument rating, that's another ding against you.
Your hull value is quite high...higher than any I've ever seen
quoted on an RV-10. (although I'm sure there are some out there)
I wouldn't recommend under-insuring, nor over-insuring.
But you may have to look at what you *really* have into the plane.
Unless you did something extraordinary, your $225K is probably
not in line with reality. Think RV-10 market value for the plane.
It used to be easy to sell them for that price, but now it's
a bunch harder. Maybe there's a happy medium and the hull
value is $175-200k? Add up your avionics, engine, airframe,
and some additional supplies, and see what it really cost.
I'm not an insurance expert but I can tell you that if you
under insure, you can lose big, and every article I've ever
read about over-insuring points out ways that it can be very
bad as well. So I would try to be as accurate as possible and
consider the market value of the plane. Don't try to squeeze
dollars of your hard work out of it.
And remember, while if you put it in the field, you damage
the plane, I get it that you wouldn't tackle another building
project, but you are likely to be able to rebuild or fix
most anything short of totalling the plane. Bent landing
gear? replace it. Smashed a wing? replace it. Twist
your tail when a door flies off? Build a new tail and attach it.
None of those things are worth totalling a plane for if you
built it yourself and the insurance company buys the parts.
Not sure what your quote was for, what your number of
pilot hours and ratings are, or any of that, but first year
quotes are usually eye openers....$3500-4500 isn't uncommon.
Get 300 hours (especially in type) and an instrument rating
and you'll likely be well under $2500 in todays climate.
Some are more like $1700.
I actually consider most aircraft insurance to be somewhat
of a bargain. I can insure a piper cherokee 140 for less
than my car, and the insurance price scales up by hull
value fairly linearly. So for the dollar value that I
insure my RV-10 for, I'm really getting it for cheaper
than I pay for my car. Now, I'm about to add my daughter
on to my RV-14 for her solo...that may throw it out of
whack, but when it's me on the policy, it's a good deal.
Tim
On 5/11/2017 8:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
| Quote: | So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I
hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K
per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not
going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field,
I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or
something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what
I have in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy
a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in
my build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Lenny Iszak
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Insurance |
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My first quote was $4500 for a hull value of 200K. I think about it as insurance for myself not the airplane.
If you are properly insured you have it wired in your brain that if something happens the plane is owned by the insurance company and you are just trying to pick the best outcome for yourself. To me that state of mind is worth the crazy price. It gets way better next year.
Congrats on finishing it!
Lenny
| philperry9 wrote: | So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring.  Knowing that I'm not going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else.  Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil |
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: Insurance |
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I would agree. While one may not want to do a second build, keeping in
mind what you can buy on the market that is close to a replacement, or
maybe finding a 90% done kit that you can finish the way you want it, in
maybe a year or less. I insured for $175K, and with around 1900 TT,
instrument, commercial, multi ratings (grandfathered tailwheel, complex
and HP) got quote somewhere around 2200-2300. I expect to get better
coverage for equal or less money on this year's renewal, as I will have
100+ in type and 100 on airframe.
On 5/11/2017 7:22 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | It used to be easy to sell them for that price, but now it's
a bunch harder. Maybe there's a happy medium and the hull
value is $175-200k? Add up your avionics, engine, airframe,
and some additional supplies, and see what it really cost.
I'm not an insurance expert but I can tell you that if you
under insure, you can lose big, and every article I've ever
read about over-insuring points out ways that it can be very
bad as well. So I would try to be as accurate as possible and
consider the market value of the plane. Don't try to squeeze
dollars of your hard work out of it.
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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amekler
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:23 am Post subject: Insurance |
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Can I ask what you were quoted Alan
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 11, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
It depends on what you want to protect, and whether you want to risk the insurance considering your aircraft "totaled" where it really wouldn't be if insured for the market value. Generally, insurance guidelines for a "total" are around 60-65% of the insured value, because they are looking at salvage value, etc.
I considered what the kit, engine, avionics, etc. cost me, with no value put on my time and labor, to come up with what I wanted to insure for.
Hull coverage is generally a percentage of stated value, adjusted for risk evaluation of pilot(s). So my RV-10, that is worth around 4 times what my previous Mooney was, cost me about $600 a year more to insure than the Mooney did, even though the risks to the RV are somewhat less, given fixed gear vs retract. Most older retracts are totaled if they have a gear up, due to cost of prop replacement and engine teardown. Usually cost to repair airframe isn't that bad.
Also keep in mind that usually there are limitations on coverage for the first 5 or 10 hours, and that rates likely will come down after you and the plane have 100 hours.
> On 5/11/2017 6:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit the floor when I saw it.
> The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per passenger.
> My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
> I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build) I can live with.
> But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
> Curious to hear what others have done.
> Thanks,
> Phil
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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tsts4
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Insurance |
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I took a bit of a different approach to my hull value as I wanted cover 90% of what I had invested not what I thought the market value was for a like replacement RV-10. My first year (2015 which included first flight) was $2603 for $140K hull through Falcon. Last year it dropped to $1936 for the same coverage. This year it was $1855.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying |
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Insurance |
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I agree with Tim that insurance is a relative bargain. Years ago I put a 16 year old son on a Socata Tampico at 60K/1M for less money than putting him in a beater truck that was liability only.
I have also viscerally learned that you don't necessarily want the cheapest quote. Having gone through the harrowing experience of an expensive claim (that some may have read about  ) there is nothing more expensive than cheap insurance.
Mine is through Gallagher with AIG which are both known and battle tested quantities with me. They were both incredibly helpful in my claim process. My newest quote was $1840 plus another $125 for a full Mexican rider for Samaritan trips. I've got 25+K flight time, with about 325 in type. I also, of course, had a recent claim which doesn't seem to have affected my rating. I'm committed to those two for as long as they'll underwrite me.
A year ago, on a lark, I sent in the postcard for the "direct" insure company and their quote was north of 4K. I don't know why they even bother to market to the expo market. Their own rep told me on the phone that they aren't competitive because they don't really want experimental business.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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