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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: Future of flight . . . |
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http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
Bob . . .
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jbsoar(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Future of flight . . . |
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Yes, the electric airplane... Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane folks have largely gone to electric power...
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:57 pm Post subject: Future of flight . . . |
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Let's not forget that a solar powered airplane has already flown around the world.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:42 AM, John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, the electric airplane... Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane folks have largely gone to electric power...
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
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genie(at)swissmail.org
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: Future of flight . . . |
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An aspect of electric aircraft which is worth considering is the risk of
fire following an accident. I know of a case where an electric aircraft
got into a spin at low altitude and crashed. The post crash fire
consumed everything and little was left of the pilot. Fortunately he
died on impact.
Batteries are a fire hazard. We have seen that with Tesla cars that
burn. Fortunately nobody has been hurt so far, as far as I know. We have
also seen the batteries of laptops and of Samsung Galaxies catch fire. I
understand that such events are caused by a rupture within the battery
which results in a short circuit, and the energy thus released causes a
conflagration.
I wonder how much it would cost to insure an electric aircraft that uses
lithium-ion or similar batteries. The possibilities of a crash causing a
major conflagration have to be kept in mind.
It is obvious that electric motors are far more efficient than internal
combustion engines. However, generating electricity is very inefficient.
One also has to take the energy cost of transmission of all that
electric power into consideration. Of course refining oil and
distributing fuel also consumes energy. It is my impression that, if one
takes the global view, there is no huge difference between the
efficiencies of internal combustion and electric aircraft.
Given the cost of creating an electric power grid that serves all
airfields and the fire hazard of current batteries in my opinion the
internal combustion engine is the power source of the foreseeable
future. But not necessarily the spark ignition engine. I think that
diesel engines are the future of aircraft propulsion for a few decades
at least. They are heavier but provide power and torque at lower engine
speeds and are more efficient energy wise. Besides I understand that
diesel and jet fuel are less of a fire risk than gasoline. Current
diesel engines for aircraft are converted automotive units and may not
be optimal, but once they start making dedicated aircraft diesel engines
I expect to see improvements.
I myself have flown diesel powered Robin DR400's. I would be reluctant
to set foot in an electric aircraft, at least one based on present
technology.
George Nielsen
On 22-Jun-17 9:01, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
| Quote: | *
Time: 10:44:32 AM PST US
From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Future of flight . . .
Yes, the electric airplane...
Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane
folks have largely gone to electric power...
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
>
> Bob . . .
>
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rick(at)beebe.org
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Future of flight . . . |
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On 6/22/2017 10:50 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
| Quote: |
<genie(at)swissmail.org>
An aspect of electric aircraft which is worth considering is the risk of
fire following an accident. I know of a case where an electric aircraft
got into a spin at low altitude and crashed. The post crash fire
consumed everything and little was left of the pilot. Fortunately he
died on impact.
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Different battery chemistries have different risk of fire. As do
different liquid aviation fuels. Car fires are so common (175,000
resulting in 445 deaths and $1.2 billion in damage in 2015 alone) that
they barely make the news. Electric vehicle fires get sensationalized
because they're so rare. As electric aircraft get commercialized, I
believe that's a risk that's easily mitigated.
| Quote: | It is obvious that electric motors are far more efficient than internal
combustion engines. However, generating electricity is very inefficient.
One also has to take the energy cost of transmission of all that
electric power into consideration. Of course refining oil and
distributing fuel also consumes energy. It is my impression that, if one
takes the global view, there is no huge difference between the
efficiencies of internal combustion and electric aircraft.
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Generating electricity isn't all that inefficient especially compared to
"generating" fuel. In fact refining fuel takes huge amounts of
electricity and heat. Several analysis have said it takes roughly 6kWh
of energy to refine one gallon of gasoline, or enough to drive an
electric car 20 miles. This article is a fairly unbiased analysis of a
lot of that research:
https://greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html
| Quote: | Given the cost of creating an electric power grid that serves all
airfields and the fire hazard of current batteries in my opinion the
internal combustion engine is the power source of the foreseeable
future.
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I think it will be for a while, as well, but only because of the need to
go distances and/or recharge very quickly. Both of which are coming
faster than I suspect we imagine.
--Rick
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