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Leaning and Learning

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philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:16 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the little nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept the mixture and power pushed close to the firewall for break-in.   Recently, now that the engine looks like the new has worn off, I have started to lean the engine more and more aggressively.  



Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it or talk through some possibilities.

Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the leaning function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In / 2500 RPM.    As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine started to cough a bit.   That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.

I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just to see.   I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at 11.9ish and once I found peak for that cylinder I richened it back up to 75º ROP.   The engine smoothed right out and was happy.  That was around 14 GPH.

Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed something along the way?

- The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

- The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse) on the other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's engraving on the data plate.

- Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.

I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same behavior of running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not attempting to run it LOP because the injectors haven't been balanced yet, but I really don't see how it would be possible to run LOP smoothly when there's even less fuel entering the nozzle.

Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a lot of things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF information and would just lean until it got rough and then twist the mixture in a few times.   My assumption always was that the mixture was on the LOP side when the roughness started.  In this case, with all this fancy equipment, I can see the roughness starts on the ROP side.

Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and something I shouldn't worry about or if there's something really going on that I need to stop and investigate.



Phil

civengpe

Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 105

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:29 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

Phil,

You need to balance your injectors. You have the exact same engine as I do and it took about three iterations with Don at airflow performance to get mine dialed into where I am today. Give him a call and he will send you a lean test sheet. Send it to him and he will send you a new set of injector nozzles. Replace the existing ones with the ones he sends you, then repeat the test. 

After a couple of tries you will be able to fly LOP just fine. 

Shannon



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 8:19 AM Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the little nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept the mixture and power pushed close to the firewall for break-in.   Recently, now that the engine looks like the new has worn off, I have started to lean the engine more and more aggressively.  



Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it or talk through some possibilities.

Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the leaning function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In / 2500 RPM.    As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine started to cough a bit.   That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.

I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just to see.   I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at 11.9ish and once I found peak for that cylinder I richened it back up to 75º ROP.   The engine smoothed right out and was happy.  That was around 14 GPH.

Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed something along the way?

- The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

- The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse) on the other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's engraving on the data plate.

- Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.

I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same behavior of running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not attempting to run it LOP because the injectors haven't been balanced yet, but I really don't see how it would be possible to run LOP smoothly when there's even less fuel entering the nozzle.

Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a lot of things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF information and would just lean until it got rough and then twist the mixture in a few times.   My assumption always was that the mixture was on the LOP side when the roughness started.  In this case, with all this fancy equipment, I can see the roughness starts on the ROP side.

Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and something I shouldn't worry about or if there's something really going on that I need to stop and investigate.



Phil

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:45 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

Hi Phil,



It probably is a factor in injector balance.  I can basically lean from 

full rich

all the way to 75 LOP or more and it doesn't stumble.  So my guess is

that  you will find the injectors need a bit of balancing. Personally I'd

wait until you get 25 hours on it before backing off on the hard running,

and then get it up to 9500 msl where you are well into the range where

you can't exceed any high power setting going LOP and then do a very very

slow full mixture pull all the way to 50 LOP.  Do this 3 or 4 times,

and upload it all to Savvy or use some software to look at the peak curves.

You'll see if they match up or not.   And then get right to balancing

the injectors.   People procrastinate...I know I do, and wait far too 

long to

balance the injectors on their engines.  Why suffer rough running longer

than normal?     On my RV-14 I haven't yet done a balance, but, that's

because after running the test early on, it was so close I wasn't sure if

I could even improve it.  I'm going to have to go back now and see if it's

changed at all.  I am happy it's pretty good right out of the box, and I've

been flying it LOP a bunch.  Stumbling is just something you shouldn't 

experience

if everything is set up right on an IO engine.



If I am cruising LOP and I richen it up, all I get is a little 

acceleration, and a little

more "thump" to the power stroke as the cylinder pressures get higher.

Other than that it's just smooth.



You're definitely right about the "too much data".  People fixate on 

numbers when

using digital data, but in this particular case, you'll want that data.  

Hopefully

you can capture it at 1 second resolution, and if so, you'll be able to 

tune it in

very quickly.



Oh, and when you do the LOP, one benefit of being high (not Colorado 

high), is

that you can do it at WOT.  Your doing it at 24" and 2500rpm is higher than

I would do it it at.  That's above 75% power I believe, no?  (This is 

off the

cuff so 'scuse me if I'm wrong on that)  Anyway, do the test at an altitude

where you can get 21-22" and 2360rpm and see how that goes.

I really don't fly LOP under 7500msl unless I power back, and I prefer not

to power back. 

Tim





On 7/20/2017 8:15 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the 

 little nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept the 

 mixture and power pushed close to the firewall for break-in.   

 Recently, now that the engine looks like the new has worn off, I have 

 started to lean the engine more and more aggressively.



 Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it or talk 

 through some possibilities.



 Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the leaning 

 function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In / 2500 RPM.   

  As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine started to cough a bit.   

 That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.



 I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just to 

 see.   I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at 11.9ish and 

 once I found peak for that cylinder I richened it back up to 75º ROP. 

   The engine smoothed right out and was happy.  That was around 14 GPH.



 Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed 

 something along the way?



 - The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

 - The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse) on the 

 other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's engraving on the 

 data plate.

 - Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.



 I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same behavior of 

 running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not attempting to run it 

 LOP because the injectors haven't been balanced yet, but I really 

 don't see how it would be possible to run LOP smoothly when there's 

 even less fuel entering the nozzle.



 Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a lot of 

 things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF information and 

 would just lean until it got rough and then twist the mixture in a few 

 times.   My assumption always was that the mixture was on the LOP side 

 when the roughness started.  In this case, with all this fancy 

 equipment, I can see the roughness starts on the ROP side.



 Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and something I 

 shouldn't worry about or if there's something really going on that I 

 need to stop and investigate.



 Phil

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:52 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

I don't think it is particularly normal. You should not be getting more 

than a hint of roughness as you approach peak.  I would not do your 

testing at the power setting you had. Reduce to 65% power first, until 

you determine where the roughness is coming from. You won't hurt 

anything at 65%, while you can cause problems leaning slowly while at or 

above 75%. Also, for your power setting, 11.9 is too lean for first cyl 

to peak. Either you don't have FF calibrated yet, or your power is 

dropping significantly while you are leaning. Once you have injectors 

balanced and any ignition issues dealt with, you can then just lean 

directly to a FF value LOP and know what power you are getting and that 

you are at a setting that treats the engine well.

I have two Bendix S-1200 mags, with stock Bendix RSA fuel injection, and 

stock 8.5:1 compression. While I will feel a hint of vibration as I go 

LOP, the engine doesn't get rough until leaner than 50 LOP. The 

vibration is significantly less than 1 fouled plug would cause, more a 

feeling than hearing anything. I have not balanced injectors yet.

I use the formula of 14.9 times your fuel flow while LOP equals power. 

For 195 hp, (75%) that is  13.0 gph. For 70% it is 12. For 65% it is 

11.3, for 60% 10.5 and so on. That is with the LOP definition of degrees 

lean from the LAST cyl to peak. For your higher compression you might 

need to bump the calculation factor to 15.0

At your starting power, you were near 75%, and I would guess your power 

dropped off around 10% as you approached peak on first cylinder.

Have you run either GAMI test or AFP leaning test?

Another measure of mixture distribution is to glance at your EGTs 

shortly after lift-off, full power. Ideally they all will be at or 1300 

or less, preferably centered on 1250, plus or minus 50. That will have 

you approximately 200 ROP, where you want during full power operations.

You can also check your ignition at cruise altitude by setting the 

mixture you want, then doing a routine mag check....with the caveat that 

if engine quits for any reason, you go to near lean cutoff before 

turning mag back on...that is to protect your mufflers, and to prevent a 

prop surge.



On 7/20/2017 6:15 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the little 

 nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept the mixture and 

 power pushed close to the firewall for break-in.   Recently, now that 

 the engine looks like the new has worn off, I have started to lean the 

 engine more and more aggressively.

 

 Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it or talk 

 through some possibilities.

 

 Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the leaning 

 function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In / 2500 RPM.   

   As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine started to cough a bit.   

 That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.

 

 I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just to see. 

    I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at 11.9ish and once I 

 found peak for that cylinder I richened it back up to 75º ROP.   The 

 engine smoothed right out and was happy.  That was around 14 GPH.

 

 Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed 

 something along the way?

 

 - The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

 - The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse) on the 

 other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's engraving on the data 

 plate.

 - Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.

 

 I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same behavior of 

 running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not attempting to run it LOP 

 because the injectors haven't been balanced yet, but I really don't see 

 how it would be possible to run LOP smoothly when there's even less fuel 

 entering the nozzle.

 

 Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a lot of 

 things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF information and 

 would just lean until it got rough and then twist the mixture in a few 

 times.   My assumption always was that the mixture was on the LOP side 

 when the roughness started.  In this case, with all this fancy 

 equipment, I can see the roughness starts on the ROP side.

 

 Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and something I 

 shouldn't worry about or if there's something really going on that I 

 need to stop and investigate.

 

 Phil

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

A little more data...  



Since my engine has 9:1 pistons, Aerosport power suggested that it 285 was closer to the baseline for calculating percentage of HP.  So, using that math in the G3X setup, it was about 68% of power.  I can't say the FF is 100% correct yet, but it's close.   I've been making a number of power changes in my flights and haven't had a chance to get a constant enough run to feel like it's calibrated.  But it's always been fairly close.

Good info so far..  Thanks for the continued discussion.

Phil





On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 I don't think it is particularly normal. You should not be getting more than a hint of roughness as you approach peak.  I would not do your testing at the power setting you had. Reduce to 65% power first, until you determine where the roughness is coming from. You won't hurt anything at 65%, while you can cause problems leaning slowly while at or above 75%. Also, for your power setting, 11.9 is too lean for first cyl to peak. Either you don't have FF calibrated yet, or your power is dropping significantly while you are leaning. Once you have injectors balanced and any ignition issues dealt with, you can then just lean directly to a FF value LOP and know what power you are getting and that you are at a setting that treats the engine well.

 I have two Bendix S-1200 mags, with stock Bendix RSA fuel injection, and stock 8.5:1 compression. While I will feel a hint of vibration as I go LOP, the engine doesn't get rough until leaner than 50 LOP. The vibration is significantly less than 1 fouled plug would cause, more a feeling than hearing anything. I have not balanced injectors yet.

 I use the formula of 14.9 times your fuel flow while LOP equals power. For 195 hp, (75%) that is  13.0 gph. For 70% it is 12. For 65% it is 11.3, for 60% 10.5 and so on. That is with the LOP definition of degrees lean from the LAST cyl to peak. For your higher compression you might need to bump the calculation factor to 15.0

 At your starting power, you were near 75%, and I would guess your power dropped off around 10% as you approached peak on first cylinder.

 Have you run either GAMI test or AFP leaning test?

 Another measure of mixture distribution is to glance at your EGTs shortly after lift-off, full power. Ideally they all will be at or 1300 or less, preferably centered on 1250, plus or minus 50. That will have you approximately 200 ROP, where you want during full power operations.

 You can also check your ignition at cruise altitude by setting the mixture you want, then doing a routine mag check....with the caveat that if engine quits for any reason, you go to near lean cutoff before turning mag back on..that is to protect your mufflers, and to prevent a prop surge.

 

 On 7/20/2017 6:15 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the little nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept the mixture and power pushed close to the firewall for break-in.   Recently, now that the engine looks like the new has worn off, I have started to lean the engine more and more aggressively.

 

 Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it or talk through some possibilities.

 

 Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the leaning function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In / 2500 RPM.     As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine started to cough a bit.   That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.

 

 I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just to see.    I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at 11.9ish and once I found peak for that cylinder I richened it back up to 75º ROP.   The engine smoothed right out and was happy.  That was around 14 GPH.

 

 Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed something along the way?

 

 - The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

 - The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse) on the other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's engraving on the data plate.

 - Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.

 

 I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same behavior of running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not attempting to run it LOP because the injectors haven't been balanced yet, but I really don't see how it would be possible to run LOP smoothly when there's even less fuel entering the nozzle.

 

 Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a lot of things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF information and would just lean until it got rough and then twist the mixture in a few times.   My assumption always was that the mixture was on the LOP side when the roughness started.  In this case, with all this fancy equipment, I can see the roughness starts on the ROP side.

 

 Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and something I shouldn't worry about or if there's something really going on that I need to stop and investigate.

 

 Phil

 

 

 	
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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

I suggest you not use whatever power the engine made on the dyno, but 

rather 260 hp for calculating performance. My reasoning is that you then 

can get consistent numbers with other users. Using the stock numbers 

with higher compression should get you better fuel economy.

Also, higher compression pistons generate more heat, the cylinders tend 

to run hotter, which accelerates wear. A more extreme example...I know 

of an aircraft that had an STC to run 10:1 pistons in a 200 hp IO-360. 

It might have had a MP restriction around 28" so that the engine didn't 

make more power than the airframe was certified for. However the 

aircraft did not have a full engine monitor, only single pt EGT,CHT and 

oil temp. Before 1000 hours the engine had self-destructed at least one 

piston, on takeoff from MSN for OSH. A terrible way to not make OSH. A 

lot of engines that had that STC did not make more than 800 hours before 

needing top overhauls.

It is nice to have the power when you need it, or to run say something 

over 170 hp to higher altitudes, but I would not make a practice of 

running it over 195 hp in cruise, especially rich of peak. I wouldn't 

climb it at over 260 hp unless you had an obstacle clearance issue. 

These engines have very good longevity at the 250-260 hp they were 

originally rated, durability at higher power is not well documented. 

Lycoming made significant changes to the engine to run at 300 hp, such 

as oil nozzles spraying on the bottom of pistons, better breathing and 

cooling fins, bigger heads, etc.



On 7/20/2017 7:08 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   A little more data...

 

 Since my engine has 9:1 pistons, Aerosport power suggested that it 285 

 was closer to the baseline for calculating percentage of HP.  So, using 

 that math in the G3X setup, it was about 68% of power.  I can't say the 

 FF is 100% correct yet, but it's close.   I've been making a number of 

 power changes in my flights and haven't had a chance to get a constant 

 enough run to feel like it's calibrated.  But it's always been fairly close.

 

 Good info so far..  Thanks for the continued discussion.

 

 Phil

 

 

 On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com 

 <mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com>> wrote:

 

     

     <mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com>>

 

     I don't think it is particularly normal. You should not be getting

     more than a hint of roughness as you approach peak.  I would not do

     your testing at the power setting you had. Reduce to 65% power

     first, until you determine where the roughness is coming from. You

     won't hurt anything at 65%, while you can cause problems leaning

     slowly while at or above 75%. Also, for your power setting, 11.9 is

     too lean for first cyl to peak. Either you don't have FF calibrated

     yet, or your power is dropping significantly while you are leaning.

     Once you have injectors balanced and any ignition issues dealt with,

     you can then just lean directly to a FF value LOP and know what

     power you are getting and that you are at a setting that treats the

     engine well.

     I have two Bendix S-1200 mags, with stock Bendix RSA fuel injection,

     and stock 8.5:1 compression. While I will feel a hint of vibration

     as I go LOP, the engine doesn't get rough until leaner than 50 LOP.

     The vibration is significantly less than 1 fouled plug would cause,

     more a feeling than hearing anything. I have not balanced injectors yet.

     I use the formula of 14.9 times your fuel flow while LOP equals

     power. For 195 hp, (75%) that is  13.0 gph. For 70% it is 12. For

     65% it is 11.3, for 60% 10.5 and so on. That is with the LOP

     definition of degrees lean from the LAST cyl to peak. For your

     higher compression you might need to bump the calculation factor to 15.0

     At your starting power, you were near 75%, and I would guess your

     power dropped off around 10% as you approached peak on first cylinder.

     Have you run either GAMI test or AFP leaning test?

     Another measure of mixture distribution is to glance at your EGTs

     shortly after lift-off, full power. Ideally they all will be at or

     1300 or less, preferably centered on 1250, plus or minus 50. That

     will have you approximately 200 ROP, where you want during full

     power operations.

     You can also check your ignition at cruise altitude by setting the

     mixture you want, then doing a routine mag check....with the caveat

     that if engine quits for any reason, you go to near lean cutoff

     before turning mag back on...that is to protect your mufflers, and

     to prevent a prop surge.

 

 

     On 7/20/2017 6:15 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

 

         I am about 19.5 hours into Phase 1 and am still learning all the

         little nuances of the engine.   For the first few hours I kept

         the mixture and power pushed close to the firewall for

         break-in.   Recently, now that the engine looks like the new has

         worn off, I have started to lean the engine more and more

         aggressively.

 

         Mine might be behaving like others, but I'd like to confirm it

         or talk through some possibilities.

 

         Yesterday I was at 5,500 msl (roughly 7,000 DA), activated the

         leaning function on my G3X, and started leaning.   Power: 24 In

         / 2500 RPM.     As I began to approach peak EGT, the engine

         started to cough a bit.   That was in the neighborhood of 12.5 GPH.

 

         I hadn't reached peak yet, so I continued with the leaning just

         to see.    I was able to get the first cylinder to peak at

         11.9ish and once I found peak for that cylinder I richened it

         back up to 75º ROP.   The engine smoothed right out and was

         happy.  That was around 14 GPH.

 

         Is this a behavior that you see in your engine, or have I missed

         something along the way?

 

         - The engine is an Aersport IO-540-D4A5 and pistons are 9:1.

         - The Ignition is Light Speed on one side and a Slick (Impluse)

         on the other.   The slick is timed at 20º per Aerosport's

         engraving on the data plate.

         - Fuel/Induction is from Airflow Performance.

 

         I'm just curious to know if your engine exhibits the same

         behavior of running rough before it reaches peak.   I'm not

         attempting to run it LOP because the injectors haven't been

         balanced yet, but I really don't see how it would be possible to

         run LOP smoothly when there's even less fuel entering the nozzle.

 

         Sometimes too much data out of the EMS leads to re-learning a

         lot of things.   In the past, I didn't have this much EGT/FF

         information and would just lean until it got rough and then

         twist the mixture in a few times.   My assumption always was

         that the mixture was on the LOP side when the roughness

         started.  In this case, with all this fancy equipment, I can see

         the roughness starts on the ROP side.

 

         Anyway, I'm just curious if this behavior is normal and

         something I shouldn't worry about or if there's something really

         going on that I need to stop and investigate.

 

         Phil

 

 

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     target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

     ====================================

     FORUMS -

     eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

     ====================================

     WIKI -

     errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

     ====================================

     b Site -

                -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

     rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ====================================

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:34 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

Good points...   I can adjust it down and use that as the reference...   



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 20, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 

 G3X

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Leaning and Learning

Do you really have a Slick mag with impulse coupling? I'm a little hazy on the details, but Lycoming stopped shipping them that way, and put in retard mags with Slick start instead. I think there's a repetitive A/D on the impulse coupling in this engine?

And, as someone with a relatively new engine, I assume you've heard about the wide-reaching "mandatory SB" on the connecting rod journals?

But this is all independent of balancing your injectors. It's easy and relatively inexpensive. After balancing, I can slowly back the mixture way out, and the engine continues to run smoothly - just makes less and less power as I go further and further lean of peak. Running LOP gives reasonable range with the standard 60 gallon tanks. (160 KTAS on 10 gal/hr).

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Leaning and Learning

Phil, I've been running LOP for 900 hours and 6 years now. Everything 

I'd have to offer is captured in Tim's post - every single word.



After you have it all set up and get comfortable (I don't need no 

stinking gauges, I just move the mixture next to about there), you'll 

even be able to lean in the climb up to 8-11k where the '10 really 

becomes a sweet traveling machine.  But leaning in the climb in not LOP, 

it's just maintaining a reasonable ROP setting.



Bill "LOP is great but you have to go thru a couple of tuning cycles 

first" Watson



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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: Leaning and Learning

Lycoming will ship with most any Slick mag you want. The problem with

impulse couplings dates back awhile..current ones I don't believe have

the AD..different attach method. Some vintage Bendix also had impulse

coupler problems, IIRC. None of them come with Slick Start, AFAIK. You

have to add that to retard breaker mags.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Do you really have a Slick mag with impulse coupling? I'm a little hazy on the details, but Lycoming stopped shipping them that way, and put in retard mags with Slick start instead. I think there's a repetitive A/D on the impulse coupling in this engine?

 And, as someone with a relatively new engine, I assume you've heard about the wide-reaching "mandatory SB" on the connecting rod journals?

 But this is all independent of balancing your injectors. It's easy and relatively inexpensive. After balancing, I can slowly back the mixture way out, and the engine continues to run smoothly - just makes less and less power as I go further and further lean of peak. Running LOP gives reasonable range with the standard 60 gallon tanks. (160 KTAS on 10 gal/hr).



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB





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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471203#471203

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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