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IVO Prop current limiter
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 03:51 AM 12/13/2013, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob,

 

 I stumbled on the IVO Prop current limiter schema searching... an IVO Prop protection device to avoid problems with it 

 

 I have an ICP Savannah VG running a 912 wit an IVO ultralight 3blade IFA.



 Looking on the forum I saw a lot of message, some very positive, some a little less. At the end I did not understood what is the current status of the project. 	


    I did that design a number of years ago and several

    List members endeavored to build it . . . as I recall,

    their results met design goals.



    If anyone has encountered difficulties, I wasn't aware

    of it but I'd sure like to be.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Is it OK? Any (possible) and unresolved issue? (I can build it by myself, no problem for this).



 Would you be so kind to update ma about this? 	


    I considered making it a product. In fact, I think I

    have some proof-of concept ECBs around here somewhere.

    The thing would fit into this package except it

    wouldn't be labeled 'solid state relay'



  http://tinyurl.com/kw3h453



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Best regards and... Merry Christmas! 

 	


   Thank you sir . . . you too.  I've echoed this to

   the List and with an invitation to anyone with good

   or bad experiences with this circuit



  http://tinyurl.com/pf5w9s2



   to jump in and update us on their findings. If the

   circuit needs modification, that can be accomplished.

   As I said, I think I do have some boards to assemble

   one . . . if the project looks like it should move

   forward, perhaps your airplane could be the 'beta

   test' environment.



 



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

Dennis Glaeser

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: IVO Prop Current Limiter

I was the requester for that design.  

I built it, tested it, and used it for the last few years.  Works perfectly!  

I recently upgraded to an MT prop, so I sold the IVO along with the current limiter.  I don't know if that plane is flying yet.



Dennis Glaeser

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

Hey guys,



I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop.   My first attempt at it did not work.   It seemed to have an issue similar to that reported by Mike Welch some time ago.   As soon as I hit the switch in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the yellow light would come on.



I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new circuit from scratch.   My second attempt seems to work properly, although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled.   With the second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions.   To test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the motor.   In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on, and the breaker does not trip.



It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.



Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop.   I greatly appreciate you designing this and making it available.   Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.



Doug Garland

Norman, OK

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 03:12 PM 2/6/2014, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hey guys,



I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop.   My first attempt at 

it did not work.   It seemed to have an issue similar to that 

reported by Mike Welch some time ago.   As soon as I hit the switch 

in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the 

yellow light would come on.



I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new 

circuit from scratch.   My second attempt seems to work properly, 

although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled.   With the 

second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions.   To 

test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the 

motor.   In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on, 

and the breaker does not trip.



It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.



Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop.   I 

greatly appreciate you designing this and making it 

available.   Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.


	


   Send me your assembly and let me stroke it

   on the bench with a 'scope attached. This

   is one of several products I'm hoping will

   come to the market after the new AeroElectric

   'team' is assembled. I've had offers to

   discuss options from several people. In

   the mean time, we need to see if a fine-tuning

   of circuit constants is called for.



   Bob . . .

papa11(at)centurylink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

On 2/6/2014 4:12 PM, kfav8r wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hey guys,



 I built Bob's current limiter for my IVO prop.   My first attempt at it did not work.   It seemed to have an issue similar to that reported by Mike Welch some time ago.   As soon as I hit the switch in either direction, the motor would turn very briefly, then the yellow light would come on.



 I could not figure out where I'd gone wrong, so I built a new circuit from scratch.   My second attempt seems to work properly, although I'm still building and my prop is not assembled.   With the second circuit, the motor turns normally in both directions.   To test the cut-off, I shorted the leads that would normally go to the motor.   In that configuration, the yellow LED immediately turns on, and the breaker does not trip.



 It will be a little while before I can test it with the propeller assembled.



 Bob, this is such a terrific addition to the IVO IFA prop.   I greatly appreciate you designing this and making it available.   Thanks also to Dennis for his involvement in making it happen.



 Doug Garland

 Norman, OK





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418213#418213



 Hi Bob if you still have any of the limiter kits available I would like to have one  thanks Emil Radtke

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Hi Bob if you still have any of the limiter kits available I would 

>like to have one  thanks Emil Radtke


	


   it was never 'kitted' . . . only a schematic offered.

   several have been built and a few folks have experienced

   difficulties.  We'll track down the 'glitches' and

   apply any necessary/useful refinements.



   I have a board laid out from which this device can

   be fabricated and a housing to enclose it. It will

   be one of several products to spin up from the

   selected manufacturing partner for the AeroElectric

   Connection brand . . .



   But in the mean time, see



http://tinyurl.com/ny5jhgr

   Bob . . .

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

Bob,



My problem board is in the mail to you.



Thanks again!

_________________
Doug

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

It's been awhile, but thought I'd post my latest results with this circuit.



I finally have the engine running on my Kitfox, with the medium IVOProp and the limiter circuit.



With the engine off, the prop changes pitch in both directions, mostly without premature cutoff from the limiter. I measured the current to the prop motor, with readings between about 3 Amps and 9 Amps, depending on the state of the prop pitch.



With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.



I've not yet measured the current to the prop with the engine running, but will attempt that.



Doug

_________________
Doug

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 11:09 AM 5/3/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>



 It's been awhile, but thought I'd post my latest results with this circuit.



 I finally have the engine running on my Kitfox, with the medium IVOProp and the limiter circuit.



 With the engine off, the prop changes pitch in both directions, mostly without premature cutoff from the limiter. I measured the current to the prop motor, with readings between about 3 Amps and 9 Amps, depending on the state of the prop pitch.



 With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.



 I've not yet measured the current to the prop with the engine running, but will attempt that. 	


   That idea goes back a ways . . . we started talking

   about it early 2011 I think . . . 



   The 0.1/0.2 paralleled resistors in the source of Q114

   offers a current limit on the order of 9 amps.

   If the system is 'twitchy' with the engine

   running, I'm wondering if we're not getting come

   noise into the latch-loop Q103-R106-D110-Q115-

   D109-R105.



   How is the circuit constructed? Can  you post

   some pix? 



 

 

   Bob . . .

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  With the engine (912ULS) running, at any RPM setting, the limiter cuts off prop power almost immediately. I think this is what Mike Welch described some time ago. There is a small amount of pitch adjustment  with each switch engagement before current is cut off, shown by small RPM changes.

 	
 	
 

 The description described above is accurate.  I only found minute pitch changes with each click.

 

 

 Mike Welch

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

Thanks for the replies. I'll get some pictures ASAP.

_________________
Doug

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:34 am Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

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_________________
Doug

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 11:34 AM 5/17/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>



 Pictures attached... 	


   Okay, I think I know what your problem

   might be. The LEDS in the design are

   not mounted on the board and leadwires

   out to panel mounted LEDS are subject

   to noise ingress and premature tripping

   of the stall limiter.



   Just for grins, try mounting some

   LEDS right on the board and remove the

   long lead wires.



   In the time since I sketched that idea

   out, I've incorporated some new technologies

   into similar applications . . . micro-processors.



   That IVO prop current limiter could be easily

   redesigned to eliminate the naturally 'twitchy'

   latching system I used on the original

   design . . . gee . . . how long has that

   been?



 

 

   Bob . . .

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:09 am Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

I'll give that a shot, Bob.  Thanks.



That's what everyone asks me about building this plane, "gee, how long has that been!?"

_________________
Doug

Dennis Glaeser

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

There is no date on your circuit diagram, but my PDF has a file date of June 2010.  Time flies when you are having fun 



Dennis Glaeser (original requester for this circuit).

merlewagner2

Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Spring Hill, FL

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

Bob,



When you get the new circuit up I would be very interested in purchasing. Have the Ivo mag prop which will be interfacing with a Viking Turbo 170HP. Should be interesting to see the performance. 



Merle

_________________
KC1DNJ
General Radiotelephone
Commercial SEL
A & P
Building scale P51, rebuilding Tailwind W10

kfav8r

Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Norman, OK

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: IVO Prop current limiter

I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.



The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally.  With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.

_________________
Doug

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 05:36 PM 5/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com>



 I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.



 The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally.  With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.



 --------

 Doug

 	


   Need to pray over your observations . . . 

   it would sure be nice to get some

   measurements . . . but I think I'll

   have an experiment that will help

   burrow down to root cause. 



 

 

   Bob . . .

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally.  With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off. -------- Doug 	




	


Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when the engine is running?



â€”Daniel

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: IVO Prop current limiter

At 11:06 PM 5/27/2017, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally.  With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.



 --------

 Doug 	
	


 Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when the engine is running? 	


   possibly . . . but I think not. The

   current limiter is configured to 'latch'

   into an OFF state approx 200 mS after

   a current limit on the order of 9A is

   achieved.



   The 'latch' is subject to premature triggering

   if subjected to noise which I suspect is coming

   from the ship's alternator. 



 

 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

   Doug,



   Try tacking this combination of components onto

   your assembly. The experiment is to see if adding

   a smoothing capacitor to the circuit's power

   source will sufficiently attenuate the antagonistic

   energies. The 100 uF cap is the 'smoother' while

   the 10 ohm resistor mitigates inrush currents impressed

   on the circuit when the directional control switch

   closes . . .



 



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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