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Fuel selector valve

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cgroote1(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:37 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Has anyone replaced their standard Van's fuel selector valve with an Andair fuel selector valve? Why would one want to do that? What is the part number? Thanks.

Curtis Groote

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

A lot of builders have chosen the Andair valve. There were reports at 

one time of the Vans valve failing early, and I believe it got 

redesigned. The Andair valve is well built, more aircraft quality than 

the Vans valve.

IMHO, the stock mounting location is too high in the tunnel, regardless 

of the brand. You want to minimize the elevation changes from wing to 

boost pump to reduce chances of an air or vapor blockage. It takes some 

effort to make the fuel line bends to get the valve as low as possible 

in the tunnel, but I believe it reduces chances blockage, and reduces 

amount of suction needed to get fuel from wings to the pump.

On 9/7/2017 7:36 AM, Curtis Groote wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Has anyone replaced their standard Van's fuel selector valve with an Andair fuel selector valve? Why would one want to do that? What is the part number? Thanks.

 

 

 Curtis Groote

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

1.  If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line.  Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me.  I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits.

2.  I have mine in stock location.  I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder.  I have had no problems with the valve.  But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve.  Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also.  I think it is a much nicer valve.



Rene'

801-721-6080



--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel selector valve

 	  rene(at)felker.com wrote: 	
		  1.  If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line.  Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me.  I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits.

2.  I have mine in stock location.  I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder.  I have had no problems with the valve.  But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve.  Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also.  I think it is a much nicer valve.



Rene'

801-721-6080



-- 	




1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?).

2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Oh, so they moved it down.  I would still replace the valve because I do not

like the feel, just does not feel like it is in position and I always wonder

when I am in the air.



Rene'

801-721-6080



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Bob,

That's interesting. I know I did it that way in 2005 (finished and flew 

in Feb 2006).

I wasn't aware that they made the change to the plans though.

I'm actually impressed. I thought they never changed anything once it

was released, unless it was a major issue.  I did it for the reasons

you mentioned, including the heater SCAT.  I'm just surprised that

it actually became official. It made sense to me at least.

Tim



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?).

 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel selector valve

The post early 2008 set up uses a very slightly modified valve - the shaft is slightly thinner. The handle up on top of the tunnel is greatly improved, with a locking feature and a 'pull up to turn' feature.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

If you have no air/vapor in the system, no leaks, etc. then yes  siphon 

is no big deal. Is that the real world in your airplane if you run one 

tank dry, or your connections are imperfect?

Will your fuel not vaporize when suction is applied to it? At 130 

degrees runway temperature? Ever tried to start a siphon with mouth 

suction? The amount of rise definitely makes a difference.

On 9/7/2017 3:08 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 rene(at)felker.com wrote:

> 1.  If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line.  Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me.  I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits.

> 2.  I have mine in stock location.  I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder.  I have had no problems with the valve.  But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve.  Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also.  I think it is a much nicer valve.

>

> Rene'

> 801-721-6080

>

> --

 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?).

 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there.

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:14 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Interesting what Tim mentioned and I compared to the plans he       had, indeed from page 37-3 to 6 it is revision 2 12/18/07 and they       did add Page 37-7.     

They did as well add a bulkhead fitting on the tunnel instead of       routing them through the tunnel walls and changed the valve       fittings from 45 deg to 90 deg and no crossover routing.

          

I can however not find any plan update for chapter 37 on the       Van's webside

          I did modify that whole part with Andair parts just to have a more     straight forward setup and will replace the aluminum lines with     Bonaco braided fuel lines.

     [img]cid:part1.440FD6FE.69C782F1(at)gmx.net[/img]

     Cheers Werner

     

     On 08.09.2017 00:34, Tim Olson wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		  -->       RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)       

       

       Bob,       

       That's interesting. I know I did it that way in 2005 (finished and       flew in Feb 2006).       

       I wasn't aware that they made the change to the plans though.       

       I'm actually impressed. I thought they never changed anything once       it       

       was released, unless it was a major issue.  I did it for the       reasons       

       you mentioned, including the heater SCAT.  I'm just surprised that       

       it actually became official. It made sense to me at least.       

       Tim

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Don't know for sure, but I think after a lot of work in phase 1 in 2008 I have the system sealed very well.  I have run a tank dry and also un-ported a tank doing slips.  In both cases great response from changing tanks or just coming out of the slip. In the case of running the tank dry I also used Aux pump, but with the slip it recovered before I even hit the pump.



Vapor lock has been a concern for me because of the heat in the tunnel and does add to my desire to change it if I ever do this again. I have a friend who has asked me to help with his RV-10 Quickbuild........so I have been going back through the list of possible mods again.

Rene'

801-721-6080



--

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