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Low Pass Engine Sputter
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bmsim

Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Alabama

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Hi Everyone,



Hopefully someone has some input on this.  My Yak has exhibited a strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done.  Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag.  I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing (sputter lasted maybe 3 to 5 seconds)



Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a top.  I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.  Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly.  So I leveled off and flew around the area a bit.  I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass.  About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing.  Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.



Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.  Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.



I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what is going on.

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Check your tanks for water.

Ernie



On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 11:57 AM bmsim <bmsim(at)hotmail.com (bmsim(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "bmsim" <bmsim(at)hotmail.com (bmsim(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Hi Everyone,

 

 Hopefully someone has some input on this.Â  My Yak has exhibited a strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done.Â  Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag.Â  I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.

 

 Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a top.Â  I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.Â  Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly.Â  So I leveled off and flew around the area a bit.Â  I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass.Â  About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing.Â  Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.

 

 Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.Â  Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.

 

 I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what is going on.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:04 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------

From: bmsim <bmsim(at)hotmail.com> 

Date:2017/09/08  9:54 AM  (GMT-07:00) 

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

Cc:  

Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter

_________________
Dawg

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Seriously?   What country are you from? 



http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Oh darn.  I'm sorry.  The message was from Bill Geipel.   Disregard.



--

nigel.willson(at)yakdispl
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Even in your attached document the inference is a low approach TO LAND (i.e. in the landing configuration), and not a high speed low pass with no intention of landing..... That is called a "Fly-through". So the rules (that protect you from prosecution because you are in approach an landing mode) do not apply to this type of manoeuvre.......

Regards, 

Nigel Willson

Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot



 



Mobile:

+44 (0)7809 116676

Email:

nigel.willson(at)yakdisplay.com

Web:

http://easyppl.com 

http://greatbritishairshows.com

http://yakdisplay.com





--

pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

In what galaxy are you living?



Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs(at)gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

 

 well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.

 

 

 

 Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

 -------- Original message --------

 From: bmsim <bmsim(at)hotmail.com> 

 Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00) 

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Cc: 

 Subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

nigel.willson(at)yakdispl
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the nl...... ðŸ˜Š

Regards, 

Nigel Willson

Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Nigel.



I am sure it works the way you describe in your country.   It does not work that way in this country.   I regularly request a low pass, or a low approach at my home airport on a regular basis.   This is a FAA towered airport.  It is "cleared as requested" every single time.



When flying from my airport to the beach, I fly right over Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point.   When I ask for clearance through their Class D airspace, I wait for approval, and then say: "Request 500 feet *OR LOWER* down the runways (which are three miles long) and the answer is typically: "Cleared as requested, keep it over the runway".



Lastly, our aircraft are "Experimental Exhibition", a category not found in your country.   The purpose of this category is to exhibit the specific operating characteristics of the make and model of aircraft, and that includes for photography.  Making a HIGH SPEED PASS directly over the runway, is an approved demonstration of those characteristics.



So excuse me if I have to disagree with your argument.  If a Federal Aviation Administration controlled airport tells me "approved as requested" when I specifically ask for a "low approach/pass", there is no requirement for me to exhibit a certain speed, a certain landing configuration, or a certain altitude.



At least that has been the case for the last 45 years I have been doing low passes at the airports in my country.

Mark



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Nigel,



Bless your heart, but I have to comment that I thank the Dear Lord you are not an FAA representative in this country.  



Mark

--

nigel.willson(at)yakdispl
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

That's true Mark... but ignorance is no defence either... and I'd rather try

to help people before they end up in a big pile of the brown stuff.....



You have no idea of what we have to put up with over here from very zealous

authorities......



Mind your Ps and Q's  !!!!!

Regards, 

Nigel Willson

Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot



  



--

nigel.willson(at)yakdispl
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

I did caveat my original post with "in the UK (and hence EASA)" - not sure about FAA rules.



However, just because you get a clearance from ATC doesn't absolve you from the usual Rules of the Air in "air law". I'm pretty sure that is standard world-wide.



For example over here in the UK, ATC will clear us to low levels (specifically on what we call a Special VFR clearance) that we sometimes (as a pilot) have to refuse because it would mean we would break the rules of the air...... the compliance is always with the pilot. That's been tried and tested in court. Unfortunately!



Fortunately you guys have a lot more open space over there to have a bit more freedom than we do over here, so I guess with a 3000ft runway you can do as you say without busting the rules!

Regards, 

Nigel Willson

Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Point taken of course!  



Just also commenting that things are a tad different over here.



Mark

--

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Don't do them. Fat finger typing.

Not to wind u up, but the tower will approve most things u ask for. That does not make it legal. u will still need to prove your case to the Fed. From current tower operator.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------

From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl> 

Date:2017/09/08  11:44 AM  (GMT-07:00) 

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

Cc:  

Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter

_________________
Dawg

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

still the ass and accelerating.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------

From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> 

Date:2017/09/08  11:32 AM  (GMT-07:00) 

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

Cc:  

Subject: RE:  Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter

_________________
Dawg

bmsim

Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Alabama

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Hey, I've got a flat tire, anybody know how to change it?  



Well, running over nails is illegal in Zimbabwe.  



Sweet, thanks.

bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Bill my Yak did this once I happened to be over an airport (doing a loop) and landed immediately looked over the engine did a lot of fuel sampling found nothing did a lot running up before going home. Got home and found water in the 5" fuel ball on the firewall check ALL your sumps. 

Bill Wade N4450Y 

       From: bmsim <bmsim(at)hotmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 12:04 PM

 Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter

--> Yak-List message posted by: "bmsim" <bmsim(at)hotmail.com (bmsim(at)hotmail.com)>

Hi Everyone,

Hopefully someone has some input on this.  My Yak has exhibited a strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done.  Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag.  I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.  

Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a top.  I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.  Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly.  So I leveled off and flew around the area a bit.  I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass.  About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing.  Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.

Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.  Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.

I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what is going on.

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626

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coolade2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

My Yaks never did this but my good friend had the exact problem you describe we were told that 25w60 would cause it-- made no sense to me as an engineer but we went back to shell 120 and the problem went away.



Sent from my iPad



[quote] On Sep 8, 2017, at 12:32 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 Oh darn.  I'm sorry.  The message was from Bill Geipel.   Disregard.

 

 --

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Same same. Maxwell AFB regularly grants my request at or below 500 ft on the center line with no configuration or speed requirements. Only once have I been restricted to 500ft due to a C 130 being cleared to position and hold. 

Doc 



Sent from my iPad



[quote] On Sep 8, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 Nigel.

 

 I am sure it works the way you describe in your country.   It does not work that way in this country.   I regularly request a low pass, or a low approach at my home airport on a regular basis.   This is a FAA towered airport.  It is "cleared as requested" every single time.

 

 When flying from my airport to the beach, I fly right over Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point.   When I ask for clearance through their Class D airspace, I wait for approval, and then say: "Request 500 feet *OR LOWER* down the runways (which are three miles long) and the answer is typically: "Cleared as requested, keep it over the runway".

 

 Lastly, our aircraft are "Experimental Exhibition", a category not found in your country.   The purpose of this category is to exhibit the specific operating characteristics of the make and model of aircraft, and that includes for photography.  Making a HIGH SPEED PASS directly over the runway, is an approved demonstration of those characteristics.

 

 So excuse me if I have to disagree with your argument.  If a Federal Aviation Administration controlled airport tells me "approved as requested" when I specifically ask for a "low approach/pass", there is no requirement for me to exhibit a certain speed, a certain landing configuration, or a certain altitude.

 

 At least that has been the case for the last 45 years I have been doing low passes at the airports in my country.

 

 

 Mark

 

 

 

 --

_________________
Viperdoc

yaknorway52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:20 am Post subject: Low Pass Engine Sputter

Hi,

Interesting subject as on my last display with my Yak 50 had the same experience. Was to fly a Display to celebrate opening of a new Museum at an old abandoned WW II German Airstrip here in Norway. After take-off from my base its only 10 minutes flight time to where the display took place. After take-off I kept Aerobatic power setting and all the way. Display started and lasted 10-12 min. On the last "low-pass" 400+ km/t and 200 feet the engine made a, in my opinion Misfire. I pulled up and gained 1500 feet to sort the shit out. As I like to see out the cockpit on low passes I did,t see on the fuel pressure gauges when the "misfired" happened. Did that on the climb out and all gauges where Normal. Can't remember my Cylinder temp, but I am sure it was in the green arc, the Gills was fully open and around 10c' outside temp. I circled overhead the old German Airstrip and prepared an emergency landing if the engine went quiet. It did run stable, but a little rough so I sat course back home and landed safely. Back at base I did a leak check on all cylinders, checked for leaks on fuel system, checked all filters, Have not checked fuel vent yet(shall do that) Since the ignition system is original I have decide to replace with Auto Ignition Kit, and new magnetos. For the moment I suspect the ignition to be my source of wake up during the low-pass:-)

Kind Regards

Havard

Norway

2017-09-09 0:38 GMT+02:00 Adrian Hale <coolade2(at)gmail.com (coolade2(at)gmail.com)>:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Adrian Hale <coolade2(at)gmail.com (coolade2(at)gmail.com)>

 My Yaks never did this but my good friend had the exact problem you describe we were told that 25w60 would cause it-- made no sense to me as an engineer but we went back to shell 120 and the problem went away.

 Sent from my iPad

 > On Sep 8, 2017, at 12:32 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

 >

 > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 >

 > Oh darn.Â  I'm sorry.Â  The message was from Bill Geipel.Â  Â Disregard.

 >

 > --

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