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rainbow462
Joined: 21 Aug 2017
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:27 am Post subject: Syndicate spreadsheets ??? |
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Hi everyone
Just setting up a new 3 person syndicate on a Europa and I am treasurer.
I can set something up myself from scratch but just wanted to see if anyone has a spreadsheet template they can share with me to start me off or views on the best ways to manage wet/dry fixed/variable payments.
Many thanks
Jeremy
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JonathanMilbank
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Syndicate spreadsheets ??? |
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Hi Jeremy,
My Europa is shared by 3 others and I'm principal shareholder, also acting as treasurer. What has worked very well for me over many years is the installation of a Hobbs hour meter. It is activated by a simple oil pressure switch, screwed into the front of the crankcase in a ready-made threaded hole with blanking plug adjacent to the oil pressure sender.
The Hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running, to provide oil pressure which activates the switch. In my 20 years experience with this device and having decided that members pay for airborne time only, they are required to record the Hobbs meter reading at the start and end of each flight. From this gets subtracted 0.2 hour (12 mins) to allow for warm-up and taxi time out and back.
If the engine is already warm after a previous flight, then only 0.1 hour gets subtracted for combined taxi out and back. However if an aircraft is based at an airfield where long taxis and delays are common, then my way of calculating wouldn't be of much use. In which case it would perhaps be simpler to charge for the whole period, but perhaps at a slightly lower rate.
I use a modified version of the original combined engine / airframe log sheet provided by Europa for pilots to record their flying, which I later transcribe into the proper engine and airframe logs. I have added columns for Hobbs readings and fuel types to be recorded.
The Hobbs meter ensures that accuracy of flight record keeping is maintained and prevents arguments, such as a pilot believing that he flew 3 hours when he actually flew 4, or vice versa. I've even made such mistakes as owner and effective treasurer; it was only the Hobbs which prevented the errors.
Finally my decades-long career as both a military and then commercial pilot, has influenced how I log flying. For the engine and airframe log purposes, I record from applying full power on the runway for the purpose of taking off until the end of the after-landing roll on the runway. For my personal logbook I record "chock to chock". Historically the difference between these times in my private flying at a quiet airfield, averages out very well at 0.2 Hour.
If you want a copy of my combined log sheet or further information, you could pm me.
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: Syndicate spreadsheets ??? |
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On 2017-09-13, at 10:27, rainbow462 <jeremy.hoyland(at)pepsico.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Just setting up a new 3 person syndicate on a Europa and I am treasurer.
I can set something up myself from scratch but just wanted to see if anyone has a spreadsheet template they can share with me to start me off or views on the best ways to manage wet/dry fixed/variable payments.
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Jeremy - I applaud your preference to avoid re-inventing the wheel, but you might want to consider options other than spreadsheets.
As a long-time user of database management programs, my own instinct would be not to even try to set up this sort of thing in a spreadsheet. Many years ago I used to use spreadsheets (anyone remember DynaCalc or MS MultiPlan?) for lists and financial work, but always found their presentation and printing capabilities very limited.
A database manager will give you much more flexibility and potential for future requirements (at some stage some is bound to say “wouldn’t it be nice if we could just . . .”). Of course, if you have tried programming MS Access, that may have put you off the whole idea of using a database manager, but there are other database managers with a much friendlier attitude to humans! I admit to being very biassed as I have been using FileMaker Pro for about 30 years with great enjoyment and productivity and thus strongly recommend it, but there are other choices such as Panorama, 4D, etc. If you want to pick my brains about the whole concept, please contact me direct rather than on the Matronics list.
Alternatively, there are browser-based group ownership systems available online. I have had some experience, as a flying club member (rather than administrator), of Goboko:
https://www.goboko.com
but as far as I can see it focusses mainly on the booking rather than the financial side of things. It now has a phone app as well as the original web browser interface.
You might also consider something like Splitwise for iOS which is a general-purpose multi-person expenses sharing app. I would guess that there are more like this for both iOS & Android.
I feel that there should be something ready-made for the purpose, which would allow all group users to enter their actions (flight time, fuel uplift, landing fees, spares bought, etc) from their own location at any time, and also allow the treasurer to manage monthly subs and all other transactions for the group as a whole. However, after a few quick online searches I have failed to find anything really appropriate, so maybe there is a niche waiting to be filled!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Syndicate spreadsheets ??? |
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I would sugfest looking at google sheets/forms....free too.Will
On Sep 13, 2017 10:39, "Rowland Carson" <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com (rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com (rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com)>
On 2017-09-13, at 10:27, rainbow462 <jeremy.hoyland(at)pepsico.com (jeremy.hoyland(at)pepsico.com)> wrote:
> Just setting up a new 3 person syndicate on a Europa and I am treasurer.
>
> I can set something up myself from scratch but just wanted to see if anyone has a spreadsheet template they can share with me to start me off or views on the best ways to manage wet/dry fixed/variable payments.
Jeremy - I applaud your preference to avoid re-inventing the wheel, but you might want to consider options other than spreadsheets.
As a long-time user of database management programs, my own instinct would be not to even try to set up this sort of thing in a spreadsheet. Many years ago I used to use spreadsheets (anyone remember DynaCalc or MS MultiPlan?) for lists and financial work, but always found their presentation and printing capabilities very limited.
A database manager will give you much more flexibility and potential for future requirements (at some stage some is bound to say “wouldn’t it be nice if we could just . . .”). Of course, if you have tried programming MS Access, that may have put you off the whole idea of using a database manager, but there are other database managers with a much friendlier attitude to humans! I admit to being very biassed as I have been using FileMaker Pro for about 30 years with great enjoyment and productivity and thus strongly recommend it, but there are other choices such as Panorama, 4D, etc. If you want to pick my brains about the whole concept, please contact me direct rather than on the Matronics list.
Alternatively, there are browser-based group ownership systems available online. I have had some experience, as a flying club member (rather than administrator), of Goboko:
https://www.goboko.com
but as far as I can see it focusses mainly on the booking rather than the financial side of things. It now has a phone app as well as the original web browser interface.
You might also consider something like Splitwise for iOS which is a general-purpose multi-person expenses sharing app. I would guess that there are more like this for both iOS & Android.
I feel that there should be something ready-made for the purpose, which would allow all group users to enter their actions (flight time, fuel uplift, landing fees, spares bought, etc) from their own location at any time, and also allow the treasurer to manage monthly subs and all other transactions for the group as a whole. However, after a few quick online searches I have failed to find anything really appropriate, so maybe there is a niche waiting to be filled!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com (rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com)> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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