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Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

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jrevens

Joined: 21 Nov 2013
Posts: 34
Location: Arvada, CO

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Can someone on this list tell me definitively how the Rotax/Ducati regulator/rectifier as used with the 912 series engines actually works?  There is so much conflicting info on the internet about it.  I don't believe it is a shunt or series type, and might be a switching type regulator, but I'd like to know for sure just to educate myself. I've read so many comments from folks who state emphatically that it is this or that, but there is only one correct answer of course.  Also, I know that many of the frequent failures of these units are being attributed to excess temperature by many. Now I recently read that these units actually create more heat when operating with a small electrical load on the system versus fully loaded closer to the maximum rating.  Others say just the opposite.  I know that there are many contributors to this forum who really know what they are talking about, and I sure would appreciate knowing the actual facts.



In the same vein, I was wondering if Bob N. or anyone else ever fully investigated or tested the Silent Hektik unit.  I was able to get one from a friend in Europe and I'm going to use it on my new Kitfox.  It's a very nice looking piece.



Thanks in advance for any information or comments relating to these questions.

_________________
John Evens
Thorp T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox SS7 N27JE (built & flying)

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:09 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

I attach a pdf presuming to depict R/R principle of operation.

I await (dis)agreement.

I hope that will help.



Jan de Jong



On 10/28/2017 6:30 AM, jrevens wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Can someone on this list tell me definitively how the Rotax/Ducati regulator/rectifier as used with the 912 series engines actually works?  There is so much conflicting info on the internet about it.  I don't believe it is a shunt or series type, and might be a switching type regulator, but I'd like to know for sure just to educate myself. I've read so many comments from folks who state emphatically that it is this or that, but there is only one correct answer of course.  Also, I know that many of the frequent failures of these units are being attributed to excess temperature by many. Now I recently read that these units actually create more heat when operating with a small electrical load on the system versus fully loaded closer to the maximum rating.  Others say just the opposite.  I know that there are many contributors to this forum who really know what they are talking about, and I sure would appreciate knowing the actual facts.



 In the same vein, I was wondering if Bob N. or anyone else ever fully investigated or tested the Silent Hektik unit.  I was able to get one from a friend in Europe and I'm going to use it on my new Kitfox.  It's a very nice looking piece.



 Thanks in advance for any information or comments relating to these questions.



 --------

 John Evens

 Thorp T-18 N71JE (built &amp; flying)

 Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building)

rectifier-regulator-2017.pdf

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rectifier-regulator-2017.pdf

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gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:08 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Le 28/10/2017 à           06:30, jrevens a écrit :

         

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jrevens" <jrevens(at)comcast.net> (jrevens(at)comcast.net)



 Also, I know that many of the frequent failures of these units are being attributed to excess temperature by many. Now I recently read that these units actually create more heat when operating with a small electrical load on the system versus fully loaded closer to the maximum rating.  Others say just the opposite. 	
     	
     

     Hi John,

     

     FWIW, here is a brief article on what we found when conducting an     actual lab study of the Rotax and Schicke GR4 voltage R/R during the     build of our project some 14 years ago.

     I drew the schematics after opening a couple of failed Rotax     regulators. My friend Jerome had to run some component on an     industrial bench to determine their characteristics.

     http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php

     My buddy's students also conducted a thermal study of the regulator.     Their - unpublished- 48 page report is only in French, though.

     

     Hop this helps,

     -- 

       Best regards,

       Gilles

       http://contrails.free.fr

       http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

At 04:06 AM 10/28/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I attach a pdf presuming to depict R/R principle of operation.

 I await (dis)agreement.

 I hope that will help. 	


 Here's a real schematic to go with it . . .

  

  http://tinyurl.com/ybvvwy9s



 

   Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

My RV-12 with a Rotax 912ULS came with the Ducati rectifier/regulator.  The Ducati is switching type regulator.  It obeys ohm's law.  The more current that flows, the warmer it gets.  Mike Miller is very knowledgeable about the Ducati.  He has posted on VansAirforce and also on this website, if I remember right.  There are different opinions about why the Ducati fails including heat, poor thermal design, and poor manufacturing practices.

  I and others have had success using a lawnmower regulator.  Search eBay for AM101406, or MIA881279, or JDR1406.  No matter what brand regulator is installed, keep it cool and mount it using heat conductive paste.

_________________
Joe Gores

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Joe,



Regarding your statement:

"No matter what brand regulator is installed, keep it cool and mount it using heat conductive paste"

Does that apply to the Ducati?Â 

I ask because mine does not have a metal back. The backside of mine is that potting material, and it is set back from the case by almost 1/16". The only thing making contact are the tiny ears with the mounting holes.

Ken

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:53 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 My RV-12 with a Rotax 912ULS came with the Ducati rectifier/regulator.Â  The Ducati is switching type regulator.Â  It obeys ohm's law.Â  The more current that flows, the warmer it gets.Â  Mike Miller is very knowledgeable about the Ducati.Â  He has posted on VansAirforce and also on this website, if I remember right.Â  There are different opinions about why the Ducati fails including heat, poor thermal design, and poor manufacturing practices.

 Â  I and others have had success using a lawnmower regulator.Â  Search eBay for AM101406, or MIA881279, or JDR1406.Â  No matter what brand regulator is installed, keep it cool and mount it using heat conductive paste.

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473912#473912

 

 

 

 

 

 

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Yeah, the small mounting contact area will not conduct much heat.  But even so, every little bit helps.  Use heat conductive grease.  A shroud with attached blast tube will help also.

  You might already have thermal grease for spark plug threads.

Below is a quote from Jim Weir. 	  Quote: 	
		  go down to the drugstore and get a small tube of that white stuff you rub on your nose in the summertime (zinc oxide). It isn't the BEST thermal conductor you can find, but it will do a fine job in most instances. 	


 A wise man once said that anything will conduct heat better than air.  You do not have to buy the expensive stuff containing silver.

Reg Shroud.pdf

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_________________
Joe Gores

gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:56 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Le 28/10/2017 à 20:48, user9253 a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yeah, the small mounting contact area will not conduct much heat.  But even so, every little bit helps.  Use heat conductive grease.  A shroud with attached blast tube will help also.

   

Hi all,
	




You can also use a computer fan attached to the Voltage R/R.

-- 

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the mounting ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so I'll determine how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated cooling air. I will only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances so I'm hoping the thing lasts.



Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and the last time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik regulator. Unfortunately the company was non-responsive to his telephone calls. They never answered their phone nor returned his messages.

graemeh

Joined: 15 Jun 2017
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last year.Â  I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.



There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their website told me this before I placed the order.



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:27 AM, kenryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kenryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the mounting ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so I'll determine how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated cooling air. I will only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances so I'm hoping the thing lasts.

 

 Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and the last time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik regulator. Unfortunately the company was non-responsive to his telephone calls. They never answered their phone nor returned his messages.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473933#473933

 

 

 

 

 

 

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kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

Great info Graeme. Do you have a link to the re-shipping service?



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Graeme Hart <graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com (graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last year.Â  I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.



There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their website told me this before I placed the order.



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:27 AM, kenryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kenryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the mounting ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so I'll determine how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated cooling air. I will only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances so I'm hoping the thing lasts.

 

 Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and the last time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik regulator. Unfortunately the company was non-responsive to his telephone calls. They never answered their phone nor returned his messages.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473933#473933

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

  -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

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 ===========

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graemeh

Joined: 15 Jun 2017
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier

It was Youshop which is a NZ only service so unlikely to be of use to you.

 

Others may be able to recommend a service that ships to your location. 

  

On Tue, 31 Oct 2017, 09:29 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Great info Graeme. Do you have a link to the re-shipping service?



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Graeme Hart <graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com (graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last year.Â  I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.



There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their website told me this before I placed the order.



	




 	  Quote:

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