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Noseleg bungee/spring replacement

 
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Rick Moss



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
Hi all,

One of the noseleg bungees on my XS has failed; the other is still holding strong, but they clearly require replacement before further flight. I do have the springs that are sold by Europa to replace the bungees, but installing them appears to be a major undertaking. Is replacement of the bungees a relatively simple task? Even this looks to require removal of the cooling ducts, oil cooler and radiator?

Suggestions gratefully received!

Rick

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Rick Moss



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
Has anyone ever replaced the bungee and feel able to share their experience?

Thanks

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kheindl(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
I did, but found it to be a very bad idea. When operating from a bumpy grass field the plane was behaving like a jack rabbit. There is zero shock absorption, just spring action. If you are the perfect pilot who always makes 3-point landings you won't have any trouble. But even on takeoff I had to push the stick forward to stop the nose from jumping up. I ended up using one spring plus the bungee on the other side, the best of both worlds. Everybody else seems to be very happy with them.
I find that the whole nosegear design is flawed and flimsy, and was done as an afterthought .
I look at other planes like the Jabiru and see really robust legs, and with proper shock absorbers.
Karl

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com>
Sent: 28 September 2018 09:18
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com>

Has anyone ever replaced the bungee and feel able to share their experience?

Thanks




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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:09 am    Post subject: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
Bungee to springs years ago no issues at all much better.

Kevin
Quote:
On 28 Sep 2018, at 09:18, Rick Moss <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Has anyone ever replaced the bungee and feel able to share their experience?

Thanks




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483415#483415











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JonathanMilbank



Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
As a perfect pilot, I always make a two point landing on the mains first and then allow the nose wheel to contact the ground last. Thus I've never put the strength of my nose wheel leg to the test, which is the wont of those who employ the "wheelbarrow" landing technique. Apart from that, the metal springs have performed well for me in all ground manoeuvres and on various airfield surfaces.

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John Wighton



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
As Jonathan says (he is a perfect pilot by the way) , correct landing technique goes a long way in preserving the noseleg whatever way it is sprung.

I have done nearly 500 hours in trigear Europa and find the nose gear with spring mod very good. Careful technique is required on bumpy ground. My springs make a fair bit of noise - which can be heard when taxiing. The stick has to be held firmly to prevent the mass balance weight from ‘driving’ the stick which causes longitudinal pitching - which drives the nosegear. This can amplify the apparent nose pitching which some pilots attribute solely to the springing of the nosegear.

Holding the nose off is necessary and good technique. I see many flat or wheelbarrow landings by ppl and students at my local field - l think there is less emphasis on avoiding early nosegear ground contact nowadays. Never land a Europa nosegear first.

I recommend the spring MOD, perhaps slightly more care is needed to avoid coupled longitudinal pitching where the nosegear and HT mass balance act in unison. The relatively low maintenance requirements are also a positive factor.

When taxiing, even at slow speed on bumping ground, the nose can start to bob up and down. This can be immediately stopped by slowing down. I also lock the stick with my knees (either fully back or forward) which avoids the mass balance coupling as described above.

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Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
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Ivor



Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
Been flying for 10years with the springs and never had a problem, before fitting them in the build i used some heavy duty plastic pipe over the ends to stop the rattle they make,
as said before mains first then lower nose, works for me with practically no maintenance definitely the way to go,IMO

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AirEupora



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
During my build I installed a half hose to the top and bottom area to hold the spring in place and Tye wrapped it in place. It has worked for the last seven years and 190 hours.

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budyerly(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
Well said,
The bungee is just fine. Most likely the hopping nose is a bungee too loose. Also the cable stop has to be adjusted properly to minimize the deflection and prevent a prop strike.

I too always put a rubber bumper on the actual frame not the stop post. I didn’t change my bungee out for the springs until about 300 hours. It was fine, I just wanted to do it.

I really liked having it tight enough that I could put 200 pounds on the front of the engine and not pull it off the peg.  Two men of about 360 pounds total sitting on both footwells should stretch it off the stop. I think the bungee is 12 mm and very tight for the gap between the frame and firewall. If that space is smaller than 3/8 inch, put on the springs. If the bungee needs to be changed, I always recommended installing the springs, but it is heavier and on the nose. It takes me about 1.5 hours to put the springs on and about the same for the bungee.  However, those of you who use the metal firewall as on the mono, I feel for you. See my previous postings on firewalls for the trigear.

Tightening the nose gear bungee is in Chapter 29T. Prep the bungee by tying a .025 safety wire around the cut end to squeeze it tightly. Remember your scout training on how to whip the end of a rope? Same technique with the wire. It keeps the end small and tight. I tie the other end off at the bottom, Then thread the wire through the gap and pull the bungee through carefully. Pull down tightly and use a wood shim to jamb the tight bungee until I can get it back down and around the bottom. Two guys help, one on top and one on the bottom. The guy on the bottom can pull the bungee easier than the guy on top.

For the Mod 71 springs, round the ends of the spring to ease slipping it on. The rest I have pretty completely reviewed in my Mod changes made some years ago. I use .016 stainless Reduxed on to the bottom and top spring hangar areas to prevent the spring from chewing into the soft 41 series steel. It stays clean and neat in there, no rust or paint chipping that way. I also hook the spring at the top and hook on to the bottom.

If you are wondering how I keep weight off the nose gear, I don’t… I have an exhaust clamp and two threaded rods holding the gear hard against the stop while I do the first spring. Then I knock out all the springs with the help of my hefty assistants stretching the spring. Wear gloves, as the spring will pinch/crush your fingers hard.

Have fun, I do.

Best Regards,
Bud Yerly

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2018 3:39:47 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement


--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>

As Jonathan says (he is a perfect pilot by the way) , correct landing technique goes a long way in preserving the noseleg whatever way it is sprung.

I have done nearly 500 hours in trigear Europa and find the nose gear with spring mod very good. Careful technique is required on bumpy ground.  My springs make a fair bit of noise - which can be heard when taxiing. The stick has to be held firmly to prevent the mass balance weight from ‘driving’ the stick which causes longitudinal pitching - which drives the nosegear. This can amplify the apparent nose pitching which some pilots attribute solely to the springing of the nosegear.

Holding the nose off is necessary and good technique. I see many flat or wheelbarrow landings by ppl and students at my local field - l think there is less emphasis on avoiding early nosegear ground contact nowadays.  Never land a Europa nosegear first.

I recommend the spring MOD, perhaps slightly more care is needed to avoid coupled longitudinal pitching where the nosegear and HT mass balance act in unison. The relatively low maintenance requirements are also a positive factor.

When taxiing, even at slow speed on bumping ground, the nose can start to bob up and down. This can be immediately stopped by slowing down.  I also lock the stick with my knees (either fully back or forward) which avoids the mass balance coupling as described above.

--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD




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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement Reply with quote
I found the bungee installation really difficult.  I ended up making donuts by knotting the shock cord (i used a clove hitch).  You can then stretch them from one side diagonally over the top to the other.  You can also adjust the load bearing characteristics by adding or removing donuts.  Also a break in a bungee doesnt mean you loose everything.
Will
William Daniell

LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:

Quote:

Well said,
The bungee is just fine.  Most likely the hopping nose is a bungee too loose.  Also the cable stop has to be adjusted properly to minimize the deflection and prevent a prop strike.
 
I too always put a rubber bumper on the actual frame not the stop post.  I didn’t change my bungee out for the springs until about 300 hours.  It was fine, I just wanted to do it.
 
I really liked having it tight enough that I could put 200 pounds on the front of the engine and not pull it off the peg.  Two men of about 360 pounds total sitting on both footwells should stretch it off the stop.  I think the bungee is 12 mm and very tight for the gap between the frame and firewall.  If that space is smaller than 3/8 inch, put on the springs.  If the bungee needs to be changed, I always recommended installing the springs, but it is heavier and on the nose.  It takes me about 1.5 hours to put the springs on and about the same for the bungee.  However, those of you who use the metal firewall as on the mono, I feel for you.  See my previous postings on firewalls for the trigear.
 
Tightening the nose gear bungee is in Chapter 29T.  Prep the bungee by tying a .025 safety wire around the cut end to squeeze it tightly.  Remember your scout training on how to whip the end of a rope?  Same technique with the wire.  It keeps the end small and tight.  I tie the other end off at the bottom,  Then thread the wire through the gap and pull the bungee through carefully.  Pull down tightly and use a wood shim to jamb the tight bungee until I can get it back down and around the bottom.  Two guys help, one on top and one on the bottom.  The guy on the bottom can pull the bungee easier than the guy on top. 
 
For the Mod 71 springs, round the ends of the spring to ease slipping it on.  The rest I have pretty completely reviewed in my Mod changes made some years ago.  I use .016 stainless Reduxed on to the bottom and top spring hangar areas to prevent the spring from chewing into the soft 41 series steel.  It stays clean and neat in there, no rust or paint chipping that way.  I also hook the spring at the top and hook on to the bottom. 
 
If you are wondering how I keep weight off the nose gear, I don’t…  I have an exhaust clamp and two threaded rods holding the gear hard against the stop while I do the first spring.  Then I knock out all the springs with the help of my hefty assistants stretching the spring.  Wear gloves, as the spring will pinch/crush your fingers hard.
 
Have fun, I do.
 
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net (john(at)wighton.net)>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2018 3:39:47 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Noseleg bungee/spring replacement  


--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net (john(at)wighton.net)>

As Jonathan says (he is a perfect pilot by the way) , correct landing technique goes a long way in preserving the noseleg whatever way it is sprung.

I have done nearly 500 hours in trigear Europa and find the nose gear with spring mod very good.  Careful technique is required on bumpy ground.  My springs make a fair bit of noise - which can be heard when taxiing.  The stick has to be held firmly to prevent the mass balance weight from ‘driving’ the stick which causes longitudinal pitching - which drives the nosegear.  This can amplify the apparent nose pitching which some pilots attribute solely to the springing of the nosegear.

Holding the nose off is necessary and good technique.  I see many flat or wheelbarrow landings by ppl and students at my local field - l think there is less emphasis on avoiding early nosegear ground contact nowadays.  Never land a Europa nosegear first.

I recommend the spring MOD, perhaps slightly more care is needed to avoid coupled longitudinal pitching where the nosegear and HT mass balance act in unison.  The relatively low maintenance requirements are also a positive factor.

When taxiing, even at slow speed on bumping ground, the nose can start to bob up and down.  This can be immediately stopped by slowing down.  I also lock the stick with my knees (either fully back or forward) which avoids the mass balance coupling as described above.

--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD




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