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flyingeuropa

Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:33 am Post subject: Newbie questions

Hi folks, 



I'm totally new to the forum and the Europa itself so just a few words about me. My name is Simon I'm living in northern Germany and after flying the standard C172/Pa28 I'm actually owning a tailwheel vintage aircraft.

 

But since some time I'm thinking about building my own plane and have been searching the internet for the right one.

I defined my mission, seperated between "nice to have" and "must have", calculated the budget, read in several forums and I'm still not sure which kit would be the right one. I'm very attracted by the Europa, being a european product with european engine, nice performance data, low fuel burn, less trouble with corrosion due to the composite structure, large baggage compartment, and last but not least the trigear is looking so nice. To be honest, I personally don't like the look of the monowheel.



Compared to the VANS Kits there is not that much information available, I joined the europaclub but still have some concerns/questions.



1. Is the build time of 800 hours achievable for a first time builder. In the picture gallery of the club the majority lists 2500+



2.  I'll definitely need the 517lbs usefull load mentioned on the website europa-aircraft.com for a 100hp Rotax. Again, the gallery shows empty weights 900+ lbs. I need a simple VFR panel, no autopilot, no big EFIS.



3. Is the Europa trigear critical in trim? Me and wife have together around 330 lbs and would still need the possibility to take full fuel and the 80lbs of baggage. Maybe some of you can provide their weight and balance data.



4. Is the builder support sufficient? This is one of my biggest concerns...



5.  Is there any Europa around -preferable in northern Germany- to have a look at?



I guess the costs will be 70K+ so it should be the right decision ;o)

Thank you so much for your help and reading this long post.



Simon

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hi Simon,



Where are you in Northern Germany.

Perhaps we can get together.



Best regards

Barry

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hi Simon,



My Europa started life as a mono-wheel and I completed it in 1997. In the winter 2013-2014 I converted it to tri-gear, which is much less stressful for me and my group members during take-off and landing. But it is slower and heavier!



For a first time builder, I suggest that 3000+ hours of building is likely. So it might be an idea to look for a partially completed kit, if possible.



Empty weight of my aircraft is about average at 868 lbs, which leaves 502 lbs useful, or 390 lbs available with full fuel. Not too bad, compared with your requirements.



The Europa is not critical in pitch trim; in fact it would be quite difficult to get it out of trim range.



The best builder support in my opinion is to be found on this forum, where you'll usually get quick answers from several experienced builders.



You would always be welcome to PM me with your questions and if I don't know an answer, then I might know of someone who does.



Welcome to the Europa world.



Jonathan

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hello Simon and welcome!



I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. I’m based at Essen-Mülheim EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg, which is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo I’d say (however I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration).



You won’t find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on such low operating costs, especially if you – like me – store the plane in a trailer and refuel at the petrol station.



You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

flyingeuropa

Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hi Jonathan,



thanks for your reply and help.

I would like to build all by myself to know the airplane well and as a builder to do the maintenance on my own in the future.

I don't feel well taking an already started kit.



3000+... that's a lot. How can they say 800-1200 hours on their website? 

I havn't found any actual builder log with the NG Quickbuild kit, most of the sites are old and outdated.

Do you know anybody who has build the QB Kit in Germany going through the whole certification with the OUV, the amateur build association here?



Best regards 



Simon

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:37 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Simon - welcome to the Europa fraternity!



May I suggest there is probably no better introduction to the Europa than to take up the offer of one or more of our German friends and meet to see a Europa in your locale (ideally both Mono and Tri-gear), and witness for yourself the enthusiasm I'm sure they will have for this great aircraft.



As others have also said, the Europa Club is excellent - both as a source of information and of inspiration.



Like many, I also searched for years comparing the best set of compromises on landing/cruise speeds, payload, cost of ownership, durability, performance etc and for me it became a clear choice between the Europa and one of the Vans aircraft.



But before you embark on selecting any home-built, may I also suggest it's worth asking yourself: 'which do i enjoy most - creating/building or solely flying?'.  850 hours build from scratch seems very ambitious - more likely double or triple that for a factory crated kit.  The number of bells and whistles one prefers can add significantly to both cost and weight.



From experience (twice now), buying a second-hand part-built Europa is a significantly faster route to flying one - providing someone who knows the aircraft can inspect and/or vouch for both its build quality and paperwork integrity.  They come up occasionally and there are plenty of part-built or even purchased but 'little-worked-on' kits out there - and their owners are often not opposed to receiving an offer to buy them.  It's a good way to minimise the capital cost and instead spend that money on finishing and configuration to your taste.  My experience is that the finish/refurbish route can take 2-3 years part-time and maybe as little as a year if you are able to spend most of your time on it.  PS: ask your wife what she thinks . . .



My MTOW is 1370lb/621kg (its a mono but i've owned both types).  Its empty weight is 825lbs/375kg.  Incorporating the extended baggage bay MOD takes the baggage capability to 80lbs/36kg.  My Tri-gear was rather heavily built and was 910lbs empty which limited the payload to e.g. a single pair of shoes.  I refurbished the Tri-Gear from salvage and it eventually cost me c£45k by the time it got its permit back.  The Mono was already structurally complete when i bought it (but un-flown) and that has cost me c£40k. 



Best wishes in your search



Clive Sutton, G-YETI (UK)

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Simon,



The advice to buy a partially built kit needs further consideration. I remember from many years ago (maybe no longer true) that your OUV is more strict than our LAA, regarding making structures with fibreglass.



The OUV requires that every time you mix any amount of resin to apply to the glass cloth, you must dribble a small amount of the mix, about 6 or 8 cm long and 1 cm wide (my guess), onto a piece of cardboard and then allow it to cure hard, together with the fibreglass job which used that same resin mix. Also you should write on that cardboard the date and specify which job / component the resin was used for. At some date thereafter the OUV will require to receive and test for themselves the strength of your resin samples.



For the above reason, I would advise that if you decide buy a partially completed kit, you should buy it in Germany, or the OUV might refuse to accept that the original builder has complied with their standards. This is a matter which I suggest you should ask the OUV about, before purchasing.



My suggestion of 3000+ hours build time was too pessimistic, because I built an early kit which was totally the opposite of QB. There were at least 1500 hours build time needed for my wings, flaps and ailerons, but my mind has tried to wipe out that nightmare. Hand-finishing the surfaces of those components took about half of the total, which is not necessary for QB.



You really should get together with other German Europa pilots and builders, who I'm sure will give you every possible support. If weight is important enough to you, then keep in mind that the mono-wheel is almost 20 kg lighter than the tri-gear and also that Rotax 914 turbo engines are maybe 8 kg heavier than Rotax 912.



Good hunting,

Jonathan

Olivier.hequet@neuf.fr

Joined: 21 Aug 2017
Posts: 40
Location: France

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: Newbie questions

Hello,



What type of modifications on your europa permit to MTOM at 656kgs?



Olivier



 	  Quote: 	
		   Le 13 mars 2018 à 09:40, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de> a écrit :

 

 

 

 Hello Simon and welcome!

 

 I own a Europa XS Trigear since 2011, which I bought second hand. I’m based at Essen-Mülheim EDLE and you are welcome to have a look at it. I have a dutch registration and an increased MTOM of 656 kg, so that payload is exactly 250 kg, which is plenty for a twoseater with the heavy Rotax 914 Turbo I’d say (however I think, that you are determined on 621 kg MTOM with a german registration).

 

 You won’t find many (if not any) planes with the performance of the Europa on such low operating costs, especially if you – like me – store the plane in a trailer and refuel at the petrol station.

 

 You are also welcome to contact me by phone 0160 993 552 43.

 

 Regards

 Roland

 PH-ZTI

 XS TG 914

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478632#478632

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Bonjour Olivier,



there are a couple of countries, where the Europa (XS) is cleared for a MTOM of 656 and the Netherlands is one of them. When changing from the British to the Dutch registration, the POH had to be amended due to the changes in performance, stall speed, center of gravity limits etc.



There are no changes necessary on the structure.



AFAIK 656 kg MTOM is also possible in the US, Canada and Sweden.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

jglazener

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hello Simon,



Having been through the process you describe and having gone grey in the meantime, herewith a few of my two Eurocents:



- 3000 hours is a minimum. I started of logging everything with the idea of making a complete WBS with hours attached, but gave that up very quickly. If you could put it together like an Airfix kit 800 hrs might be OK but it doesn't work that way. You only spend a percentage of the time actually making things. The rest is thinking, understandig, planning, trimming, fitting and then doing it all over again. So don't focus on the hours, it's the years that you are willing to take that are important. I've spent 10 so far (maybe not a record), and unless you can put everything aside you will find life throws you curveballs and the plane will come second for a while. 



- That said I have enjoyed every minute and would do it all again. It is now reaching the end stage and that is a great feeling.



- I spent 1,5 years on Kit 1 which is now all quick build. I have helped a friend with his Kit 1 QB and that really was very quick, just a few bonding jobs. So that is a clear win.



-Now that I mention said friend, the most important thing is lining up the home front. He had "forgotten"  to mention to his wife that he was starting the build which led him to contract a fierce case of AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome). Saved his marriage but the plane dream crashed in flames. My wife was more understanding, but the deal was that I would do it in the off hours and the family would not be impacted. 



- The right attitude is important. If you want to fly quickly and cheaply, this is not the way. Do it for the building and it will reward you well. Flying is then the cherry on top. 2/3 of kits do not get finished by the original buyer. I started off with the intent that I would finish it, whatever. Even though it has taken much longer than I hoped and there were times I just wanted to chuck it, I will finish it.



- The builder support is excellent. Nice people and very helpful. I would highly recommend you go to Yorkshire for a long weekend and go to Europa. The countryside is stunning and worth a visit even if you don't buy the plane.



- Only do it if you have a suitable garage at hand. Even a short distance makes it impractical to walk in and do a few things when you have the time. Those moments are in practice when most gets done.



Wishing you great wisdom in your decisions!



Regards, Jeroen

_________________
Jeroen

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165

flyingeuropa

Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Barry, 



thanks for your offer, have you got my PM, I'm not sure if it was 

sent correctly.

flyingeuropa

Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

(at)All:



Thanks for the amazing feedback to my initial post, I havn't expected that much help!

(at)Jeroen, 



thanks for adding the story of your friend (have never heard of AIDS before...  )

The question of staying motivated for ten years is simply difficult to impossible to answer, I guess. 

I have a two car garage but would prefer to use only the half of it as long as possible.

Ok, counting everything in hours would be far more but thinking and planning can also be done when I'm not at home for business.



So you think it is worth visiting the company in Wombleton? They don't mention anything about that on their homepage.

Regards Simon

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hi Simon,



I am at bt at tennant-metall.de

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

AirEupora

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Simon, my kit came from another builder and he had done some work on the wings.  After inspections by EAA Rep and another builder I redid the work it was August 2007. First flight was July 2012.  I  quit logging time at 2850.  I still needed to sand and paint.  I put a Jabiru engine on mine and that cost me a lot of time as there were no QB for it or anybody to tell me where to put things.  I put to many toys inside and built to heavy.  Learn how to glass using minimum amount of resin on your glass.  Think about weight everytime you put something to together.  Use the KISS principle on everything and ask yourself do I really need it.



There a Video of an English guy building the Europa, actual the factory built it, but it was worth watching.  "A plane was Born" or something like that.

EAA hangar after paint.jpg

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: Newbie questions

SimonI've just finished a 14 year build.   If you want to talk on skype id be quite happy to do so.

Mine took 3500 hours....there were a couple of wrong turns so say 3000 hours.

Will





On Mar 14, 2018 11:22, "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 Simon, my kit came from another builder and he had done some work on the wings.  After inspections by EAA Rep and another builder I redid the work it was August 2007. First flight was July 2012.  I  quit logging time at 2850.  I still needed to sand and paint.  I put a Jabiru engine on mine and that cost me a lot of time as there were no QB for it or anybody to tell me where to put things.  I put to many toys inside and built to heavy.  Learn how to glass using minimum amount of resin on your glass.  Think about weight everytime you put something to together.  Use the KISS principle on everything and ask yourself do I really need it.

 

 There a Video of an English guy building the Europa, actual the factory built it, but it was worth watching.  "A plane was Born" or something like that.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478658#478658

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/eaa_hangar_after_paint_841.jpg

 

 

 

 ====================================

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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flyingeuropa

Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 5

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

Hello again, 



after going in some more detail I'm still wondering if I could make the published empty weight of  387kg/853lbs as mentioned on the website.

Would you do me a favour and post the empty weights and CG of your trigear

maybe with a short summary of the main components ( engine, prop, avionic).



I saw the "a plane is born" movie by Mark Evans. What a cool guy, everthing looked so doable. From your builders point of view, what is the most difficult/challenging work? The flight controls are now already done as far as I understood.



Thanks again for your help!



Simon

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: Newbie questions

Simon,



Keep working!



853 lbs is certainly doable with the mono wheel if you build light, build per the plans (no mods) and use the lightest engine/prop combination.  It is more difficult with the tri gear as all that steel landing gear crap is heavy.



My tri has a 913 lbs empty weight.  My C/G ranges from 58.44 to 61.97 depending on loading state.  It is difficult to load out of C/G range.  



My Europa has the ROTAX 914 with Airmaster C/S prop.  The panel has the small GRT Sport EFIS with the GRT EIS 4000 engine monitor, Microair radio and transponder and Garmin GPS Map 496. In addition I have 2 1/4" standby turn coordinator, airspeed, altimeter and vertical speed.  



My guess is that the weight will change a bit when I finish installing the ADS-B 2020 equipment as I have to go back to the big instrument panel to make room for some extra boxes.  When the 2020 thing is finally installed I will have a new panel without the standby stuff and the Microair transponder.  But there will be a new TRIG transponder and 2020 approved GPS.  I hope to have that installed and working later this year.



The most challenging part of the work is to keep building.  Finishing the job is the hardest part.  Don’t quit.  Do something every day.  I really don’t remember anything that was difficult.  Well, maybe getting the peel ply out of the flap root & tip ends was frustrating but not difficult.  I have met and talked to lots of builders who just could not keep building and quit.  Don’t be that person.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (100 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Apr 13, 2018, at 3:03 PM, flyingeuropa <s.radzanowski(at)web.de> wrote:






Hello again, 



after going in some more detail I'm still wondering if I could make the published empty weight of  387kg/853lbs as mentioned on the website.

Would you do me a favour and post the empty weights and CG of your trigear

maybe with a short summary of the main components ( engine, prop, avionic).



I saw the "a plane is born" movie by Mark Evans. What a cool guy, everthing looked so doable. From your builders point of view, what is the most difficult/challenging work? The flight controls are now already done as far as I understood.



Thanks again for your help!



Simon

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:04 am Post subject: Newbie questions

Simon, My Mono XS with 914 and fully VP Woodcomp prop came out at 833 lbs. Very full, capable panel. Speed kit. I chose to put 3lbs on the stern post to give optimum C of G position so finished as 836lbs. How did I achieve that? 

1.Think light right from the start & have an expert show you how to do perfect lay ups, which are relatively dry - use peel ply on all lay ups which further reduces the amount of surface resin which adds nothing to the strength. 

2. have a largely electronic panel with an EMS rather than rows of steam dials and solid state gyros  rather than a vacuum system. Use wire thicknesses as per manual, not a bit thicker for luck 

3. an Odyssey gas recombinant battery on firewall above passenger feet. Lighter than conventional battery, fantastic starting ability, no need for much in the way of battery box 

4. Avoid one of those heavy built in leather seating fits. Cushions much lighter and flexible for differing pilot sizes. 

5. A gel coat paint system sprayed by an expert and rubbed down with wet and dry to a perfect finish. Avoids the multiple undercoats and UV protection coats and multiple top coats generally used for other paint systems and very durable. It is after all what competition gliders have been using for ever! 

6. Think about all fittings, especially metal ones. Do I need this? Does it need to be so big? For instance you can (& I did) cut down all bolts so that they were just in safety. I did not see the need for extra batteries, extra anything in the electric sphere beyond the manual recommendations. 

   The 914 is heavier than the 912 or 912S so more or less makes up for the extra weight of the extra wheels on a trigear, so 850 is certainly doable with a trigear.   Best of luck, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2018-04-14 01:27, Robert Borger wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)>



Simon,



Keep working!



853 lbs is certainly doable with the mono wheel if you build light, build per the plans (no mods) and use the lightest engine/prop combination.  It is more difficult with the tri gear as all that steel landing gear crap is heavy.



My tri has a 913 lbs empty weight.  My C/G ranges from 58.44 to 61.97 depending on loading state.  It is difficult to load out of C/G range.  



My Europa has the ROTAX 914 with Airmaster C/S prop.  The panel has the small GRT Sport EFIS with the GRT EIS 4000 engine monitor, Microair radio and transponder and Garmin GPS Map 496. In addition I have 2 1/4" standby turn coordinator, airspeed, altimeter and vertical speed.  



My guess is that the weight will change a bit when I finish installing the ADS-B 2020 equipment as I have to go back to the big instrument panel to make room for some extra boxes.  When the 2020 thing is finally installed I will have a new panel without the standby stuff and the Microair transponder.  But there will be a new TRIG transponder and 2020 approved GPS.  I hope to have that installed and working later this year.



The most challenging part of the work is to keep building.  Finishing the job is the hardest part.  Don't quit.  Do something every day.  I really don't remember anything that was difficult.  Well, maybe getting the peel ply out of the flap root & tip ends was frustrating but not difficult.  I have met and talked to lots of builders who just could not keep building and quit.  Don't be that person.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (100 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)



On Apr 13, 2018, at 3:03 PM, flyingeuropa <s.radzanowski(at)web.de (s.radzanowski(at)web.de)> wrote:



--> Europa-List message posted by: "flyingeuropa" <s.radzanowski(at)web.de (s.radzanowski(at)web.de)>



Hello again, 



after going in some more detail I'm still wondering if I could make the published empty weight of  387kg/853lbs as mentioned on the website.

Would you do me a favour and post the empty weights and CG of your trigear

maybe with a short summary of the main components ( engine, prop, avionic).



I saw the "a plane is born" movie by Mark Evans. What a cool guy, everthing looked so doable. From your builders point of view, what is the most difficult/challenging work? The flight controls are now already done as far as I understood.



Thanks again for your help!



Simon

ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

ics.com

.com

.matronics.com/contribution

SPURPURA

Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 68
Location: KAPV

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Newbie questions

It’s my experience back in 1998 I spent 2000 hours on building an 

XS  Monowheel. I also fly a tri gear/912ULS and though it’s slower

It’s so much fun to fly and has been trouble free. Love them both.

_________________
N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: Newbie questions

My tri with 912 turbo, airmaster, single screen dynon plus dual axis autopilot came out at 920lbs.   Cg bang in the middle of the cg range.

Speed kit not installed yet.

Will



On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 17:06 flyingeuropa <s.radzanowski(at)web.de (s.radzanowski(at)web.de)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "flyingeuropa" <s.radzanowski(at)web.de (s.radzanowski(at)web.de)>

 

 Hello again, 

 

 after going in some more detail I'm still wondering if I could make the published empty weight of  387kg/853lbs as mentioned on the website.

 Would you do me a favour and post the empty weights and CG of your trigear

 maybe with a short summary of the main components ( engine, prop, avionic).

 

 I saw the "a plane is born" movie by Mark Evans. What a cool guy, everthing looked so doable. From your builders point of view, what is the most difficult/challenging work? The flight controls are now already done as far as I understood.

 

 Thanks again for your help!

 

 Simon

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479320#479320

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ===========

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 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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