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GalinHdz
Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 150
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 Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
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Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month.
Â
I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldn’t tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my "solution"
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
 Virus-free. www.avg.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]
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wschertz343(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:12 am Post subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
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Galin, nice work
I don’t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot.
After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with ‘runaway trim’) , said that we might have to return . Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was resting on the trim switch,
A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now.
Bill
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication
Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month.
I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldn’t tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my "solution"
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
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I am a big fan of simple mechanical trim for safety. On my DA40 I can fly the aircraft with failure on any one control axis. For example if the aileron linkage fails I can use rudder. If the elevator linkage fails I can use the mechanical elevator trim for pitch. I have done this for practice all the way to the ground. Actually it was hands off the stick from 5 miles out so just rudder and trim. I really don't think this can be done with electric pitch trim.
Mark Kettering
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/5/18, Bill Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018, 8:00 AM
Galin, nice work
Â
I don’t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in
addition to the trim on
pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that
could be reached by
either pilot or co-pilot.
Â
After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and
after take off, I
started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a
trim-up condition.
I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control
the plane even with
‘runaway trim’) , said that we might have to return .Â
Looking down, I
found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was
resting on the trim
switch,
Â
A shift took care of the issue, and I check my
passengers now.
Bill
From: Galin
Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Trim Control Selection &
Indication
Â
Back
in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I
thought I had covered
every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I
was proven wrong
when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along
she rested her hand on
the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim
control, she
accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since
I fly actual IMC,
this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I
re-wired the trim circuit
and installed a trim selector switch. This way the
trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the
other trim is
inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last
month.
Â
I
was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some
practice approaches. He
flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do
some approaches. But
no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and
could not keep it
where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch
was still set to
co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was
happening. As soon
as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the
airplane and
everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was
looking down at the
selector switch I couldn’t tell who had control of the
trim. The last thing I
want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to
check the trim
selector switch position. Again this was not
part of an
acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board
to come up with an
acceptable solution. Here is a
link to a .pdf file
that details my "solution"
Â
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
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You two are making me glad that I went with the center stick that can be shared (one at a time) by the pilot or copilot and that I placed the trim on both the stick and at the top of the center console out of harms way.
NOW, if I could only get the time to finish the darn thing. Life continues to get in the way. Now it's designing my retirement home and trying to get the construction started. Maybe, just maybe, in another 84 days when I finally retire I might be able to find some time to finish. One can only hope and dream.
Bob Reed
PS: Been spending my evenings working on several years worth of updates to my web site since I plan on presenting it as my construction log.
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication
Galin, nice work
I don’t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot.
After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with ‘runaway trim’) , said that we might have to return . Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was resting on the trim switch,
A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now.
Bill
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Trim Control Selection & Indication
Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month.
I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldn’t tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my "solution"
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
Virus-free. www.avg.com
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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