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Fuel Management

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duanefamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: Fuel Management

After only a short time after first flight I am disappointed with the fuel sight gauge down by my right foot. During flight it is difficult to see the level and when I can visualize the level, I donâ€™t seem to trust the readingâ€¦â€¦and since I have conventional gear setup, it does not read correctly on the ground either. 

So comes the question, what are the rest of the Europa flyers using for fuel management? I have heard of fuel totalizers in some aircraft and of some builders installing fuel senders into the top of the tanks. Was wondering the pros and cons of each from the people that have already done it?

Mike Duane

Europa XS conventional gear

N377EA

Las Vegas, NV 



Sent from Windows Mail

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Management

My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing:

First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although sometimes an air bubble in it and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the reading is misleading. Its affected by where the plane is parked - inclination so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used it to second check in flight but when the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard to see.



Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to the tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I keep meaning to add a lineariser circuit on it.



Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been great and a pretty reliable indication of state,  flow, mpg economy etc (so long as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly to be absolutely sure of state.   

So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not sure i'd want to be without any of them now. I suppose the pipe is similar to dipping the tank.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Management

Hi Mike,



I have been using a fuel totaliser for over 20 years. I have an old fashioned 912UL so I fitted it after the tank return. It took a while to calibrate but is spot on and I would not want to be without it. No guesswork means you can extend your effective range.

I originally fitted the sight gauge but took it out after a few years as it was unreliable and I did not Need it anyway.



Barry

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

AirEupora

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Management

Hi mike, glad to see your building time.



I have Bud Yerly's  pipe down the side of the seat.  It works great, but I've gotten to fat and it's hard to see in flight, but I have mirror so I can see it.



I also have the MGL Voyager with a Calc tank that uses the Red Cube.  After about five flights I have it dialed in the +/- .2 gallon.  Sundays flight was Calc 9.4 actual was 9.17, but I could have put more fuel after it settled, but I had turn the pump off.



I also never fly over 2.3 hours on a tank.  It's a little scary when the engine quits and you have to switch to the reverse tank.  Been there, none that.  I want an airport off my wing when I do that.  There is suppose to be 2 1/2 gallons in  that side of the tank, but it seems on fill-up that there is less than that.



Rick Stockton 

N120EJ, Jabiru 3300L

189 hours

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: Fuel Management

Just out of interest I have seen a pipstrelle here which has one red cube on the feed line to one of the Carbs.Â  The owner told me that he simple doubles the consumption.

Has anyone seen this elsewhere?

Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:25 AM, AirEupora <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 Hi mike, glad to see your building time.

 

 I have Bud Yerly'sÂ  pipe down the side of the seat.Â  It works great, but I've gotten to fat and it's hard to see in flight, but I have mirror so I can see it.

 

 I also have the MGL Voyager with a Calc tank that uses the Red Cube.Â  After about five flights I have it dialed in the +/- .2 gallon.Â  Sundays flight was Calc 9.4 actual was 9.17, but I could have put more fuel after it settled, but I had turn the pump off.

 

 I also never fly over 2.3 hours on a tank.Â  It's a little scary when the engine quits and you have to switch to the reverse tank.Â  Been there, none that.Â  I want an airport off my wing when I do that.Â  There is suppose to be 2 1/2 gallons inÂ  that side of the tank, but it seems on fill-up that there is less than that.

 

 Rick Stockton 

 N120EJ, Jabiru 3300L

 189 hours

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480558#480558

 

 

 

 

 

 

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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Fuel Management

I have a flow sender after the return line. It works well a bit of adjusting the values to start with but once itâ€™s set correctly very accurate. Gives great piece of mind unless you are very unlucky and get a leaking tank. 



Kevin Challis



On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:32, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Just out of interest I have seen a pipstrelle here which has one red cube on the feed line to one of the Carbs.  The owner told me that he simple doubles the consumption.

Has anyone seen this elsewhere?

Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:25 AM, AirEupora <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 Hi mike, glad to see your building time.

 

 I have Bud Yerly's  pipe down the side of the seat.  It works great, but I've gotten to fat and it's hard to see in flight, but I have mirror so I can see it.

 

 I also have the MGL Voyager with a Calc tank that uses the Red Cube.  After about five flights I have it dialed in the +/- .2 gallon.  Sundays flight was Calc 9.4 actual was 9.17, but I could have put more fuel after it settled, but I had turn the pump off.

 

 I also never fly over 2.3 hours on a tank.  It's a little scary when the engine quits and you have to switch to the reverse tank.  Been there, none that.  I want an airport off my wing when I do that.  There is suppose to be 2 1/2 gallons in  that side of the tank, but it seems on fill-up that there is less than that.

 

 Rick Stockton 

 N120EJ, Jabiru 3300L

 189 hours

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480558#480558

 

 

 

 

 

 

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erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: Fuel Management

Mike,



I have a single Floscan Series 200 flow meter which is incredibly accurate (typically within a tenth of a gallon). It is connected downstream of the fuel selector valve.  I also have a fuel pressure/head sensor (thank you Jim Butcher) mounted adjacent to the flow meter, and while not as accurate, it does provide a good representation of whats actually in the tank.  Both units are tied into my Dynon Skyview which performs a cross check comparison between the two which is really nice.  



I just recently disconnected the original sight gauge as I was never comfortable with fuel in the cabin, and during the last annual inspection noted some fuel staining on the carpet by the footwell.  



Good luck with the remained of your Phase I flight testing.  Let me know if I can help out.



Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic Mono 914



____________________________________________________________

1 Cup Of This (Tonight) Will Burn Your Belly Fat Like Crazy

Wise Med

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5b12c3437b1514343694cst04vuc

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: Fuel Management

Thanks Eric,

Iâ€™ll look at theFlowscan during my research. 

Mike



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 2, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Mike,

 

 I have a single Floscan Series 200 flow meter which is incredibly accurate (typically within a tenth of a gallon). It is connected downstream of the fuel selector valve.  I also have a fuel pressure/head sensor (thank you Jim Butcher) mounted adjacent to the flow meter, and while not as accurate, it does provide a good representation of whats actually in the tank.  Both units are tied into my Dynon Skyview which performs a cross check comparison between the two which is really nice.  

 

 I just recently disconnected the original sight gauge as I was never comfortable with fuel in the cabin, and during the last annual inspection noted some fuel staining on the carpet by the footwell.  

 

 Good luck with the remained of your Phase I flight testing.  Let me know if I can help out.

 

 Erich Trombley

 N28ET Classic Mono 914

 

 

 

 ____________________________________________________________

 1 Cup Of This (Tonight) Will Burn Your Belly Fat Like Crazy

 Wise Med

 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5b12c3437b1514343694cst04vuc

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Management

Mike,



We have a sight gauge behind the seat, actually on the face of the baggage bay.  It is calibrated for the tail down configuration and is used when filling the tank.  



We have a pair of flow transducers, one for flow into engine and one for return flow that display on our GRT EFIS (GRT requires 2 transducers for a 914 setup).  We have a pressure sensor at the bottom of the tank that gives independent fuel quantity reading.  That sensor is calibrated with the plane in level flight attitude.  This setup is like Erichâ€™s except he has just one transducer.  



We have connected the two tank outlets together to simplify fuel management.  With 914 there is roughly 40 gph being returned to the tank.  Knowing how much is in the reserve side and when to switch and not leave unusable fuel in the reserve can be difficult.  Tied together there is no question.



We check after flight that the fuel remaining from level flight gauge and flow transducer agrees with what the sight gauge shows when back in the hangar.  Thatâ€™s a way to have confidence in the gauging and to verify no leaks.



We think most people do not use the foot sight gauge as it is hard to read, not accurate because of distance from the tank and there are safety concerns with a fuel hose running thru the cockpit.



We tried a capacitance gauge originally but different fuels 100LL vs MOGAS will indicate differently. 



With only using 5-6 gph, measuring fuel remaining accurately is important.  A 1 gal error is 20 minutes flying.



Get in touch with Erich.  Heâ€™s done a lot of novel things to his Europa.



Jim & Heather

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:21 am Post subject: Fuel Management

I couldn’t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with differential module.   

I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website. 

I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton  

I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer. 

  

Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capacitance sender.  

  

Capacitance:   If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in error.  I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could bench check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or AV Gas as  bench checked and in the aircraft.  What a pain.  If there is too much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe.  I replaced it, now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged the hole in the tank top with a bolt.  Great  trend indicator when it worked, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the first fuel type change.  Bad luck I suppose.   The Europa resistance gauge is fairly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend indicator  and not able to be calibrated by the builder.  

  

My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top.  If a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn’t drain down, it moves my gauge by the  size of the trapped fuel.  Now with my slight gauge re-plumb,  it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate.  However, I still have to open the cap, blow in the vent  nipple, and then the gauge is accurate after every fill.  I now run the plumbing  completely down hill and fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won’t clear until back to level flight for a while. 

  

The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box.  I have two flow scans for the 914, one on feed and the other on return.  If I put 15 gallons in the tank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate.   

  

In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flow scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series.  Since the Jab has no return it is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rotax 912 series,  is an estimate on fuel at best.  It does give a total which is lower than actual, which is OK, I guess. 

  

A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creighton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable.  His unit was a Flight Data Systems  unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes).  It worked very  well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912.  I had never heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking side, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module. 

  

For those with the GRT EIS engine monitor, it can be rewired to allow two red cubes or flow scans if not purchased with fuel flow in mind.  It is also adjustable but time consuming to get dead on unless you let the factory set it.  Dynon  I understand is using the red cube and my RV friends seem to like it on the O-320.  The LSA guys with only one cube are not impressed with the accuracy on the 912S and those with two report it is OK, but not able to calibrate it for some reason.  I never researched  it. 

  

Bottom line, 

I have had four fuel quantity determining possibilities: 

My watch ( I have 3 hours at low cruise ((4.5/hr)) and 2.5  at high cruise (5.5/hr)) 

My sight gauge. 

My EI fuel flow, and time until empty based on the amount I put in and input. 

My now defunct capacitance panel gauge (which was just replaced with dual EGT) has been hit or miss. 

  

I am the department of redundant redundancy on fuel and have found the most accurate fuel device is my fuel flow and a watch. 

  

Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>

 Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:44:54 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Fuel Management  

 

 

  --> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>

 

 My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing:

 First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although sometimes an air bubble in the and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the reading is misleading. Its affected  by where the plane is parked - inclination so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used it to second check in flight. When the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard to see.

 

 Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to the tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I keep meaning to add a lineariser circuit  on it.

 

 Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been great and a pretty reliable indication of state,  flow economy etc (so long as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly to be absolutely sure of state.   

 So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not sure i'd want to be without any of them now.

 

 --------

 Graeme Bird

 G-UMPY -  Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3

 325 hours &amp; 6 years on the Mono, 930 total

 g(at)gdbmk.co.uk

 

 

 

 

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m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:11 am Post subject: Fuel Management

Kevin,

 

A cautionary tale: you do not need a leaking tank to lose fuel unexpectedly en route.Â  My friend completed his pre-flight checks just before we set off for a 30-minute hop, but on arrival someone spotted we were leaving a trail of fuel as we taxied in. Â We had lost about 20 litres in that short time because the drain valve had not properly re-seated after the check. Had it happened the next day, we should have run out of fuel over the middle of Spain if we had not had an alternative gauge to warn that the totaliser was no longer showing what was in the tank, and given us a chance to land before it all went quiet. 

 

Of course, the saddle in the Europa tank means that the engine will cough while you still have 9 litres or so in the reserve side, but a means of cross-checking the totaliser would provide more warning of the impending trouble as well as alerting you to the leak â€“ otherwise the initial reaction might be to assume a blocked filter was causing starvation and you still had fuel above the saddle that would feed the reserve side.

 

Best regards,

 

Mike

Dr Mike Gregory

Europa Club safety officer

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis

Sent: 01 June 2018 19:49

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel Management

 

I have a flow sender after the return line. It works well a bit of adjusting the values to start with but once itâ€™s set correctly very accurate. Gives great piece of mind unless you are very unlucky and get a leaking tank. 

Kevin Challis

 



On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:32, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Just out of interest I have seen a pipstrelle here which has one red cube on the feed line to one of the Carbs.  The owner told me that he simple doubles the consumption.



 



Has anyone seen this elsewhere?



 



Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744





 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:25 AM, AirEupora <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net (AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net)>



Hi mike, glad to see your building time.



I have Bud Yerly's  pipe down the side of the seat.  It works great, but I've gotten to fat and it's hard to see in flight, but I have mirror so I can see it.



I also have the MGL Voyager with a Calc tank that uses the Red Cube.  After about five flights I have it dialed in the +/- .2 gallon.  Sundays flight was Calc 9.4 actual was 9.17, but I could have put more fuel after it settled, but I had turn the pump off.



I also never fly over 2.3 hours on a tank.  It's a little scary when the engine quits and you have to switch to the reverse tank.  Been there, none that.  I want an airport off my wing when I do that.  There is suppose to be 2 1/2 gallons in  that side of the tank, but it seems on fill-up that there is less than that.



Rick Stockton 

N120EJ, Jabiru 3300L

189 hours

creightonious

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 40

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:28 am Post subject: Fuel management

I tried it with just the footwell lndicator.  Bubbles made it inaccurate.  I could purge it by horsing the airplane into a very steep zoom.  The bubbles could be seen climbing the gauge tube but in addition to the anxiety suffered by the passenger, it did not always completely purge the gauge system.

So I put in a totalizer and 1 red cube thinking I could factor in the return amount.  I couldnâ€™t.

So in went another red cube in the return line and, hey presto, fuel added equals fuel used.  I have a straight 912 and a long ranger tank.  In a 24 gallon burn (indicated) the added fuel is within 0.3gallon less than indicated.  I consider this a safety margin and have no plans to mess with it.

The footwell tube is useful for indicating the aircraft is fueled, but in the monowheel tail down stance it is not an accurate quantity gauge.  By the way, since the installation of the long ranger the bubble problem seems to have nearly disappeared.  Go figure.

Creighton Smith   A-009



Sent from my iPad



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           ----------------------------------------------------------

                           Europa-List Digest Archive

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                     Total Messages Posted Sun 06/03/18: 5

           ----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Today's Message Index:

 ----------------------

 

     1. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Management  (Bud Yerly)

     2. 08:02 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (Bud Yerly)

     3. 09:09 AM - Static problem?  (h&amp;jeuropa)

     4. 10:11 AM - Re: Static problem?  (Robert Borger)

     5. 11:46 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (JonathanMilbank)

 

 

 

 ________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________

 

 

 Time: 07:21:16 AM PST US

 From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

 Subject: RE: Re: Fuel Management

 

 I couldn=92t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with 

 differential module.

 

 I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website.

 

 I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton

 

 I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer.

 

 

 Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capa

 citance sender.

 

 

 Capacitance:   If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in err

 or.  I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could ben

 ch check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or

 AV Gas as bench checked and in the aircraft.  What a pain.  If there is to

 o much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe.  I replaced it

 , now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged

 the hole in the tank top with a bolt.  Great trend indicator when it worke

 d, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the firs

 t fuel type change.  Bad luck I suppose.   The Europa resistance gauge is f

 airly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend 

 indicator and not able to be calibrated by the builder.

 

 

 My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side

 of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top.  I

 f a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn=92t drain down, it moves my

 gauge by the size of the trapped fuel.  Now with my slight gauge re-plumb,

  it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate.  However, I s

 till have to open the cap, blow in the vent  nipple, and then the gauge is 

 accurate after every fill.  I now run the plumbing completely down hill and

 fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won=92t clear unti

 l back to level flight for a while.

 

 

 The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box.  I have two flow scans for 

 the 914, one on feed and the other on return.  If I put 15 gallons in the t

 ank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate.

 

 

 In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flo

 w scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series.  Since the Jab has no return it 

 is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rota

 x 912 series, is an estimate on fuel at best.  It does give a total which i

 s lower than actual, which is OK, I guess.

 

 

 A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creigh

 ton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable.  His unit was a Fligh

 t Data Systems  unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes).  It

 worked very well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912.  I had neve

 r heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking s

 ide, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module.

 

 

 For those with the GRT EIS engine monitor, it can be rewired to allow two r

 ed cubes or flow scans if not purchased with fuel flow in mind.  It is also

 adjustable but time consuming to get dead on unless you let the factory se

 t it.  Dynon I understand is using the red cube and my RV friends seem to l

 ike it on the O-320.  The LSA guys with only one cube are not impressed wit

 h the accuracy on the 912S and those with two report it is OK, but not able

 to calibrate it for some reason.  I never researched it.

 

 

 Bottom line,

 

 I have had four fuel quantity determining possibilities:

 

 My watch ( I have 3 hours at low cruise ((4.5/hr)) and 2.5  at high cruise 

 (5.5/hr))

 

 My sight gauge.

 

 My EI fuel flow, and time until empty based on the amount I put in and inpu

 t.

 

 My now defunct capacitance panel gauge (which was just replaced with dual E

 GT) has been hit or miss.

 

 

 I am the department of redundant redundancy on fuel and have found the most

 accurate fuel device is my fuel flow and a watch.

 

 

 Regards,

 

 Bud Yerly

 

 Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window

 s 10

 

 

 ________________________________

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matr

 onics.com> on behalf of graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>

 Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:44:54 AM

 Subject: Re: Fuel Management

 

 

 My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing:

 First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful

 for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although s

 ometimes an air bubble in the and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the r

 eading is misleading. Its affected by where the plane is parked - inclinati

 on so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used 

 it to second check in flight. When the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard

 to see.

 

 Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind

 of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to t

 he tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I kee

 p meaning to add a lineariser circuit on it.

 

 Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been g

 reat and a pretty reliable indication of state,  flow economy etc (so long 

 as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly t

 o be absolutely sure of state.

 So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not

 sure i'd want to be without any of them now.

 

 --------

 Graeme Bird

 G-UMPY -  Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 a

 xis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on 

 Nexus, SmartA3

 325 hours &amp; 6 years on the Mono, 930 total

 g(at)gdbmk.co.uk

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m

 atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480546%23480546&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9

 b4e0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6

 36634325008274906&sdata=KDQyvIk2y1QfYfDSHuotqfvcVJq9GFbm9oJZAV87ZsU%3D&re

 served=0

 

 

 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9b4e

 0005b492422cf08d5c78ba9a4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366

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 erved=0

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 906&sdata=AMLOQDkXtGKo4WVYnV0FN04gaUtnsBrOELc9TIg1IZ4%3D&reserved=0

 

 

 ________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________

 

 

 Time: 08:02:34 AM PST US

 From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

 Subject: RE: Gurgling (burping)

 

 Jonathan,

 

 It is not uncommon for the oil level in the tank to drain down overnight.  

 Even on a new engine.  The tank can drain into the crankcase two ways on a 

 912UL (S).  If the tank is full, and the return line has oil in it, it siph

 ons down into the crankcase until the siphon is broken.  That is only a sma

 ll amount of oil on the dipstick.

 

 

 The other is through the feed line, through the oil cooler and into the oil

 pump.  The oil pump has tight clearances, but thin oil will drain quite ra

 pidly through the pump into the crankcase via the many feed passages.  You 

 are right, it could be a seal in the oil pump was not changed on your rebui

 ld or the oil pump shaft has worn beyond limits (check service bulletin 912

 -032).  This internal seal leak doesn=92t show normally, until the oil pump

 case to pump seal begins to leak.  The case to oil pump is just sealed wit

 h 515.  This is an easy fix and all external and right up front for your me

 chanic.  So Look.

 

 

 On the other hand, you would have low oil pressure if your pressure relief 

 spring/ball were stuck so I doubt that is a problem.

 

 

 Lastly, if you have a feed oil line leak at the tank, or internal in the pu

 mp, air is introduced into your feed line to the oil pump.  This prevents o

 il getting to the pump, but doesn=92t really affect the burp.  If your oil 

 pressure comes up quickly and when you pull the plugs and spin the engine b

 y hand, you get oil pressure, that is not a factor.  That is a difficult is

 sue to trace.  The only way to check is try using light air pressure on the

 oil tank overflow / vent line and remove listen for the oil moving or remo

 ve the oil feed at the pump and check for air. I really doubt that is a pro

 blem.

 

 

 Note:

 

 I found Mobile one synthetic drained quickly and the Aeroshell Sport plus 4

 less.  I would not be concerned.  BUT:

 

 

 50 blades on a 912S is quite a lot of spinning.  (Normal for my old 914.)  

 If you pause on each compression, it should only be about 10 blades of spin

 ning to get a gurgle, but that is only based on new (er) 912S engines.  The

 912 and 914 tend to take more spinning to the verge of a heart attack on m

 ine.

 

 

 Do check for static leaks on your fittings as a Rotax will not leak oil ext

 ernally unless something is wrong.  If you have oil anywhere on the outside

 of your engine, oil pump, gearbox, or oil cooler, please investigate and s

 olve it.  If all is high and dry, it is probably just that shaft oil seal o

 n the oil pump is leaking internally.  This is not a huge problem, but warr

 ants checking.

 

 

 Best Regards,

 

 Bud Yerly

 

 

 Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window

 s 10

 

 

 ________________________________

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matr

 onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:53:47 PM

 Subject: Gurgling (burping)

 

> 

 

 My 912ULS engine has done 250 hours since complete strip-down and rebuild a

 fter I bought it from an acknowledged Rotax engine expert. The three others

 who share the Europa with me are all happy with how sweetly it runs. The c

 ompressions were measured very recently and are excellent (close to 200 psi

 ). The oil pressure is good being in the vicinity of 4 bar. BUT....

 

 Nine times out of ten the oil drains quickly (overnight) from the tank to a

 level below the flat on the dipstick. This wasn't always so and has become

 worse over time. It used to take about a dozen compressions done quite slo

 wly to push the oil back into the tank, while these days it can often take 

 50 or more compressions. Why?

 

 My supposition is that the oil escapes past the oil pump and the rate of es

 cape depends on the position of the pump lobes when at rest. So if the oil 

 pressure remains good in flight, what's changed? Perhaps the oil pressure r

 elief valve is sticking in some way?

 

 Your experience and knowledge of likely causes would be gratefully received

 ..

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m

 atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480527%23480527&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65

 8908e052457c65e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6

 36633142417666692&sdata=hMIfL5dMQonZdtqvefaTxJDC7hsrnjywmpu%2BwZNmtDA%3D&

 reserved=0

 

 

 F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65890

 8e052457c65e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366

 33142417822944&sdata=JvekXzI0ulHysaX%2FODq3XxP%2B%2F4FYaqi3Yj%2Bvcgy2b%2B

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 e808d5c6785195%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636633142417822

 944&sdata=SLnhhGEn%2FyvEFMqqI2pHgYIij6YNzplrGEJDwgbUBX0%3D&reserved=0

 

 

 ________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________

 

 

 Time: 09:09:01 AM PST US

 Subject: Static problem?

 From: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>

 

 

 Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by

 nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot

 ptt.  Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.

 

 On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.  ADSB

 was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite

 direction VFR traffic above us.  Suddenly, no audio again.  When we were

 in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear

 ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.

 

 We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in

 hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a

 new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.

 

 Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip

 and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground

 point using #20 or so wire.  The idea to drain off built up charge.

 

 Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?

 

 Jim & Heather

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604

 

 

 ________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________

 

 

 Time: 10:11:25 AM PST US

 Subject: Re: Static problem?

 From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

 

 

 Jim & Heather,

 

 I havent had that problem so this is all theory from a 70 year old physicist. 

 

 

 This is a really complex problem.  You are flying a plastic, non-conductive airframe.

 Flying it through the air is like rubbing a plastic rod with a piece of

 fur.  Its going to generate a static charge. The charge resides on the outer

 surface of the skin.  No charge on the inter surface.  Makes the skin of the

 aircraft like a big capacitor.  Because the airframe is non-conductive that charge

 isnt going to move around much until it reaches a breakdown voltage somewhere

 and you can get a local discharge.  Like through a an audio panel.  Static

 wicks out on the tips of the wings and empennage, even when connected with conductive

 media to the ground, will only dissipate the charge locally around the

 wick.  (Im not sure how well) And, I guess, maybe around the near field of

 the conductor if it were bare wire.  Would those wicks dissipate the charge that

 took out the audio panel?  Maybe, but probably not.  Might those wicks reduce

 the overall charge and prevent a charge build up to ensure that there was never

 sufficient charge to harm the electronics?  Maybe, maybe not.  

 

 And, arent wicks supposed to dissipate the static charge off the airframe into

 the air, not to aircraft ground?  The idea being NOT to get the charge buildup

 in the ground.  I really dont see any benefit from static wicks on a plastic

 airframe.

 

 Perhaps a better answer would be from Bob N. our electronics guru.  He probably

 has far more direct experience with this type of issue.

 

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

 Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).

 Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208-5331

 Cel: 817-992-1117

 rlborger(at)mac.com

 

 On Jun 3, 2018, at 11:08 AM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:

 

 

 Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by

 nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot

 ptt.  Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.

 

 On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.  ADSB

 was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite

 direction VFR traffic above us.  Suddenly, no audio again.  When we were

 in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear

 ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.

 

 We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in

 hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a

 new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.

 

 Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip

 and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground

 point using #20 or so wire.  The idea to drain off built up charge.

 

 Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?

 

 Jim & Heather

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604

 

 

 ________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________

 

 

 Time: 11:46:24 AM PST US

 Subject: Re: Gurgling (burping)

 From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 

 

 Bud,

 

 The outside of my engine and the oil cooler and tank are all free from all traces

 of leaks and the new hoses fitted a year ago are tightly clamped, so no air

 leaks.

 

 I've taken your advice and looked at Service Bulletin 912-032, so this is the avenue

 that I'm probably going to investigate. Thanks very much.

 

 Best wishes,

 

 Jonathan

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480611#480611

_________________
Creighton Smith
A 036

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:21 am Post subject: Fuel management

If I might ask, which totalizer did you chose?



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 5, 2018, at 7:27 AM, crouto <crouton(at)well.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I tried it with just the footwell lndicator.  Bubbles made it inaccurate.  I could purge it by horsing the airplane into a very steep zoom.  The bubbles could be seen climbing the gauge tube but in addition to the anxiety suffered by the passenger, it did not always completely purge the gauge system.

 So I put in a totalizer and 1 red cube thinking I could factor in the return amount.  I couldnâ€™t.

 So in went another red cube in the return line and, hey presto, fuel added equals fuel used.  I have a straight 912 and a long ranger tank.  In a 24 gallon burn (indicated) the added fuel is within 0.3gallon less than indicated.  I consider this a safety margin and have no plans to mess with it.

 The footwell tube is useful for indicating the aircraft is fueled, but in the monowheel tail down stance it is not an accurate quantity gauge.  By the way, since the installation of the long ranger the bubble problem seems to have nearly disappeared.  Go figure.

 Creighton Smith   A-009

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

> On Jun 4, 2018, at 2:34 AM, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:

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> ================================================

>  EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

> ================================================

> 

> 

>          ----------------------------------------------------------

>                          Europa-List Digest Archive

>                                     ---

>                    Total Messages Posted Sun 06/03/18: 5

>          ----------------------------------------------------------

> 

> 

> Today's Message Index:

> ----------------------

> 

>    1. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Management  (Bud Yerly)

>    2. 08:02 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (Bud Yerly)

>    3. 09:09 AM - Static problem?  (h&amp;jeuropa)

>    4. 10:11 AM - Re: Static problem?  (Robert Borger)

>    5. 11:46 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (JonathanMilbank)

> 

> 

> 

> ________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________

> 

> 

> Time: 07:21:16 AM PST US

> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

> Subject: RE: Re: Fuel Management

> 

> I couldn=92t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with 

> differential module.

> 

> I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website.

> 

> I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton

> 

> I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer.

> 

> 

> Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capa

> citance sender.

> 

> 

> Capacitance:   If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in err

> or.  I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could ben

> ch check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or

> AV Gas as bench checked and in the aircraft.  What a pain.  If there is to

> o much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe.  I replaced it

> , now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged

> the hole in the tank top with a bolt.  Great trend indicator when it worke

> d, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the firs

> t fuel type change.  Bad luck I suppose.   The Europa resistance gauge is f

> airly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend 

> indicator and not able to be calibrated by the builder.

> 

> 

> My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side

> of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top.  I

> f a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn=92t drain down, it moves my

> gauge by the size of the trapped fuel.  Now with my slight gauge re-plumb,

> it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate.  However, I s

> till have to open the cap, blow in the vent  nipple, and then the gauge is 

> accurate after every fill.  I now run the plumbing completely down hill and

> fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won=92t clear unti

> l back to level flight for a while.

> 

> 

> The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box.  I have two flow scans for 

> the 914, one on feed and the other on return.  If I put 15 gallons in the t

> ank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate.

> 

> 

> In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flo

> w scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series.  Since the Jab has no return it 

> is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rota

> x 912 series, is an estimate on fuel at best.  It does give a total which i

> s lower than actual, which is OK, I guess.

> 

> 

> A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creigh

> ton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable.  His unit was a Fligh

> t Data Systems  unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes).  It

> worked very well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912.  I had neve

> r heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking s

> ide, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module.

> 

> 

> For those with the GRT EIS engine monitor, it can be rewired to allow two r

> ed cubes or flow scans if not purchased with fuel flow in mind.  It is also

> adjustable but time consuming to get dead on unless you let the factory se

> t it.  Dynon I understand is using the red cube and my RV friends seem to l

> ike it on the O-320.  The LSA guys with only one cube are not impressed wit

> h the accuracy on the 912S and those with two report it is OK, but not able

> to calibrate it for some reason.  I never researched it.

> 

> 

> Bottom line,

> 

> I have had four fuel quantity determining possibilities:

> 

> My watch ( I have 3 hours at low cruise ((4.5/hr)) and 2.5  at high cruise 

> (5.5/hr))

> 

> My sight gauge.

> 

> My EI fuel flow, and time until empty based on the amount I put in and inpu

> t.

> 

> My now defunct capacitance panel gauge (which was just replaced with dual E

> GT) has been hit or miss.

> 

> 

> I am the department of redundant redundancy on fuel and have found the most

> accurate fuel device is my fuel flow and a watch.

> 

> 

> Regards,

> 

> Bud Yerly

> 

> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window

> s 10

> 

> 

> ________________________________

> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matr

> onics.com> on behalf of graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>

> Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:44:54 AM

> Subject: Re: Fuel Management

> 

> 

> My conclusion was the same and I went on a journey with this whole thing:

> First I moved the pipe to come up between the seats; this has proved useful

> for seeing how much fuel I have when in the hangar before I fly although s

> ometimes an air bubble in the and fuel in the vent for the pipe means the r

> eading is misleading. Its affected by where the plane is parked - inclinati

> on so I check it at the same place in the hangar. Occasionally I have used 

> it to second check in flight. When the fuel is low (below 18ltrs), its hard

> to see.

> 

> Then I installed a capacitive sensor in the tank with a gauge. This is kind

> of useful as a second check and reliable but the scale is way off due to t

> he tank shape. Its also hard to get a good seal on the sender flange. I kee

> p meaning to add a lineariser circuit on it.

> 

> Then I have a differential totaliser (EI 5PL or something); this has been g

> reat and a pretty reliable indication of state,  flow economy etc (so long 

> as fuel added is entered correctly). I tend to fill to the brim regularly t

> o be absolutely sure of state.

> So with the three indicators I got to a reasonable level of confidence. Not

> sure i'd want to be without any of them now.

> 

> --------

> Graeme Bird

> G-UMPY -  Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 a

> xis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on 

> Nexus, SmartA3

> 325 hours &amp; 6 years on the Mono, 930 total

> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m

> atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480546%23480546&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81e9

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> 36634325008274906&sdata=KDQyvIk2y1QfYfDSHuotqfvcVJq9GFbm9oJZAV87ZsU%3D&re

> served=0

> 

> 

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> 

> 

> ________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________

> 

> 

> Time: 08:02:34 AM PST US

> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

> Subject: RE: Gurgling (burping)

> 

> Jonathan,

> 

> It is not uncommon for the oil level in the tank to drain down overnight.  

> Even on a new engine.  The tank can drain into the crankcase two ways on a 

> 912UL (S).  If the tank is full, and the return line has oil in it, it siph

> ons down into the crankcase until the siphon is broken.  That is only a sma

> ll amount of oil on the dipstick.

> 

> 

> The other is through the feed line, through the oil cooler and into the oil

> pump.  The oil pump has tight clearances, but thin oil will drain quite ra

> pidly through the pump into the crankcase via the many feed passages.  You 

> are right, it could be a seal in the oil pump was not changed on your rebui

> ld or the oil pump shaft has worn beyond limits (check service bulletin 912

> -032).  This internal seal leak doesn=92t show normally, until the oil pump

> case to pump seal begins to leak.  The case to oil pump is just sealed wit

> h 515.  This is an easy fix and all external and right up front for your me

> chanic.  So Look.

> 

> 

> On the other hand, you would have low oil pressure if your pressure relief 

> spring/ball were stuck so I doubt that is a problem.

> 

> 

> Lastly, if you have a feed oil line leak at the tank, or internal in the pu

> mp, air is introduced into your feed line to the oil pump.  This prevents o

> il getting to the pump, but doesn=92t really affect the burp.  If your oil 

> pressure comes up quickly and when you pull the plugs and spin the engine b

> y hand, you get oil pressure, that is not a factor.  That is a difficult is

> sue to trace.  The only way to check is try using light air pressure on the

> oil tank overflow / vent line and remove listen for the oil moving or remo

> ve the oil feed at the pump and check for air. I really doubt that is a pro

> blem.

> 

> 

> Note:

> 

> I found Mobile one synthetic drained quickly and the Aeroshell Sport plus 4

> less.  I would not be concerned.  BUT:

> 

> 

> 50 blades on a 912S is quite a lot of spinning.  (Normal for my old 914.)  

> If you pause on each compression, it should only be about 10 blades of spin

> ning to get a gurgle, but that is only based on new (er) 912S engines.  The

> 912 and 914 tend to take more spinning to the verge of a heart attack on m

> ine.

> 

> 

> Do check for static leaks on your fittings as a Rotax will not leak oil ext

> ernally unless something is wrong.  If you have oil anywhere on the outside

> of your engine, oil pump, gearbox, or oil cooler, please investigate and s

> olve it.  If all is high and dry, it is probably just that shaft oil seal o

> n the oil pump is leaking internally.  This is not a huge problem, but warr

> ants checking.

> 

> 

> Best Regards,

> 

> Bud Yerly

> 

> 

> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Window

> s 10

> 

> 

> ________________________________

> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matr

> onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:53:47 PM

> Subject: Gurgling (burping)

> 

>> 

> 

> My 912ULS engine has done 250 hours since complete strip-down and rebuild a

> fter I bought it from an acknowledged Rotax engine expert. The three others

> who share the Europa with me are all happy with how sweetly it runs. The c

> ompressions were measured very recently and are excellent (close to 200 psi

> ). The oil pressure is good being in the vicinity of 4 bar. BUT....

> 

> Nine times out of ten the oil drains quickly (overnight) from the tank to a

> level below the flat on the dipstick. This wasn't always so and has become

> worse over time. It used to take about a dozen compressions done quite slo

> wly to push the oil back into the tank, while these days it can often take 

> 50 or more compressions. Why?

> 

> My supposition is that the oil escapes past the oil pump and the rate of es

> cape depends on the position of the pump lobes when at rest. So if the oil 

> pressure remains good in flight, what's changed? Perhaps the oil pressure r

> elief valve is sticking in some way?

> 

> Your experience and knowledge of likely causes would be gratefully received

> ..

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m

> atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D480527%23480527&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d65

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> 36633142417666692&sdata=hMIfL5dMQonZdtqvefaTxJDC7hsrnjywmpu%2BwZNmtDA%3D&

> reserved=0

> 

> 

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> F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3d658908e052457c65

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> 944&sdata=SLnhhGEn%2FyvEFMqqI2pHgYIij6YNzplrGEJDwgbUBX0%3D&reserved=0

> 

> 

> ________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________

> 

> 

> Time: 09:09:01 AM PST US

> Subject: Static problem?

> From: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>

> 

> 

> Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by

> nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot

> ptt.  Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.

> 

> On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.  ADSB

> was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite

> direction VFR traffic above us.  Suddenly, no audio again.  When we were

> in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear

> ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.

> 

> We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in

> hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a

> new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.

> 

> Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip

> and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground

> point using #20 or so wire.  The idea to drain off built up charge.

> 

> Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?

> 

> Jim & Heather

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604

> 

> 

> ________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________

> 

> 

> Time: 10:11:25 AM PST US

> Subject: Re: Static problem?

> From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

> 

> 

> Jim & Heather,

> 

> I havent had that problem so this is all theory from a 70 year old physicist. 

> 

> 

> This is a really complex problem.  You are flying a plastic, non-conductive airframe.

> Flying it through the air is like rubbing a plastic rod with a piece of

> fur.  Its going to generate a static charge. The charge resides on the outer

> surface of the skin.  No charge on the inter surface.  Makes the skin of the

> aircraft like a big capacitor.  Because the airframe is non-conductive that charge

> isnt going to move around much until it reaches a breakdown voltage somewhere

> and you can get a local discharge.  Like through a an audio panel.  Static

> wicks out on the tips of the wings and empennage, even when connected with conductive

> media to the ground, will only dissipate the charge locally around the

> wick.  (Im not sure how well) And, I guess, maybe around the near field of

> the conductor if it were bare wire.  Would those wicks dissipate the charge that

> took out the audio panel?  Maybe, but probably not.  Might those wicks reduce

> the overall charge and prevent a charge build up to ensure that there was never

> sufficient charge to harm the electronics?  Maybe, maybe not.  

> 

> And, arent wicks supposed to dissipate the static charge off the airframe into

> the air, not to aircraft ground?  The idea being NOT to get the charge buildup

> in the ground.  I really dont see any benefit from static wicks on a plastic

> airframe.

> 

> Perhaps a better answer would be from Bob N. our electronics guru.  He probably

> has far more direct experience with this type of issue.

> 

> Blue skies & tailwinds,

> Bob Borger

> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).

> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.

> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

> Corinth, TX  76208-5331

> Cel: 817-992-1117

> rlborger(at)mac.com

> 

> On Jun 3, 2018, at 11:08 AM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> Two or three years ago our Garmin GMA 340 audio panel was damaged apparently by

> nearby lightning strike - we saw flash in far distance and then had to use copilot

> ptt.  Garmin repaired for $600 and said it was destroyed by lightning.

> 

> On our trip to Petit Jean we were in some precipitation and getting bounced.  ADSB

> was showing lots of colors but it was just a short distance and ATC had opposite

> direction VFR traffic above us.  Suddenly, no audio again.  When we were

> in the clear we found we could transmit by powering off the GMA 340 and hear

> ATC with it powered on but in PA mode.

> 

> We talked to SteinAir and purchased a new Garmin GMA 240 audio panel partly in

> hopes that the newer technology might be more resistant to being damaged and a

> new 240 was about the cost of repair of the 340.

> 

> Stein, the owner, suggested we might want to add a single static wick to each wingtip

> and the top of the tail and connect them all together to our common ground

> point using #20 or so wire.  The idea to drain off built up charge.

> 

> Has anyone else had a similar problem and whats the opinion on static wicks?

> 

> Jim & Heather

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480604#480604

> 

> 

> ________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________

> 

> 

> Time: 11:46:24 AM PST US

> Subject: Re: Gurgling (burping)

> From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

> 

> 

> Bud,

> 

> The outside of my engine and the oil cooler and tank are all free from all traces

> of leaks and the new hoses fitted a year ago are tightly clamped, so no air

> leaks.

> 

> I've taken your advice and looked at Service Bulletin 912-032, so this is the avenue

> that I'm probably going to investigate. Thanks very much.

> 

> Best wishes,

> 

> Jonathan

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480611#480611

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Management

As an extension of Mike Gregory's caution. 

It is always wise, when one knows how accurate the totaliser is, to compare fuel loaded to computed expected fuel.

I filled up one time and realised that I had taken 7 Liter more than expected. Sure enough I had a small tank outlet leak.

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: Fuel management

Creighton uses the FC10.



Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Mike Christine Duane <DuaneFamly(at)aol.com>

Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 3:59:10 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel management






If I might ask, which totalizer did you chose?



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Jun 5, 2018, at 7:27 AM, crouto <crouton(at)well.com> wrote:



 



 I tried it with just the footwell lndicator.  Bubbles made it inaccurate.  I could purge it by horsing the airplane into a very steep zoom.  The bubbles could be seen climbing the gauge tube but in addition to the anxiety suffered by the passenger, it did not always completely purge the gauge system.

 So I put in a totalizer and 1 red cube thinking I could factor in the return amount.  I couldn’t.

 So in went another red cube in the return line and, hey presto, fuel added equals fuel used.  I have a straight 912 and a long ranger tank.  In a 24 gallon burn (indicated) the added fuel is within 0.3gallon less than indicated.  I consider this a safety margin and have no plans to mess with it.

 The footwell tube is useful for indicating the aircraft is fueled, but in the monowheel tail down stance it is not an accurate quantity gauge.  By the way, since the installation of the long ranger the bubble problem seems to have nearly disappeared.  Go figure.

 Creighton Smith   A-009



 Sent from my iPad



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>

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>                    Total Messages Posted Sun 06/03/18: 5

>          ----------------------------------------------------------

> Today's Message Index:

> ----------------------

>

>    1. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Management  (Bud Yerly)

>    2. 08:02 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (Bud Yerly)

>    3. 09:09 AM - Static problem?  (h&amp;jeuropa)

>    4. 10:11 AM - Re: Static problem?  (Robert Borger)

>    5. 11:46 AM - Re: Gurgling (burping)  (JonathanMilbank)

>

> ________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________

> Time: 07:21:16 AM PST US

> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

> Subject: RE: Re: Fuel Management

>

> I couldn=92t agree more with your comments on the EI 5 fuel totalizer with

> differential module.

>

> I have a sight gauge as depicted on my website.

>

> I have had a capacitance gauge from GRT / Princeton

>

> I have the EI 5 fuel totalizer.

> Painfully, I calibrated my tank (marks on the tank, sight gauge, and a capa

> citance sender.

> Capacitance:   If I change fuel from AV Gas to Premium Auto, it read in err

> or.  I have marks on the outside of my probe for calibration so I could ben

> ch check it, it reads different based on ethanol content, or none, MOGAS or

> AV Gas as bench checked and in the aircraft.  What a pain.  If there is to

> o much ethanol (10%) or water it kills my capacitance probe.  I replaced it

> , now it is intermittent and I again in frustration I pulled it and plugged

> the hole in the tank top with a bolt.  Great trend indicator when it worke

> d, I either had gas or not, and nothing accurate in between beyond the firs

> t fuel type change.  Bad luck I suppose.   The Europa resistance gauge is f

> airly accurate as it is designed for the tank shape, but again, is a trend

> indicator and not able to be calibrated by the builder.

> My sight gauge has been re-plumbed to prevent fuel trapping as my vent side

> of the gauge resides in between the tank and the fiberglass module top.  I

> f a bit of fuel trapped in that vent side doesn=92t drain down, it moves my

> gauge by the size of the trapped fuel.  Now with my slight gauge re-plumb,

> it runs almost completely down hill and is damned adequate.  However, I s

> till have to open the cap, blow in the vent  nipple, and then the gauge is

> accurate after every fill.  I now run the plumbing completely down hill and

> fuel trapping is still possible during steep climbs and won=92t clear unti

> l back to level flight for a while.

> The EI FP5 I own was calibrated out of the box.  I have two flow scans for

> the 914, one on feed and the other on return.  If I put 15 gallons in the t

> ank, the EI reads zero as the pumps cavitate.

> In my building experience, I followed convention on using one fuel cube/flo

> w scan for the Jabiru or Rotax 912 series.  Since the Jab has no return it

> is fairly accurate and of course the return, which is unmetered in the Rota

> x 912 series, is an estimate on fuel at best.  It does give a total which i

> s lower than actual, which is OK, I guess.

> A couple of years ago we did do a return on the Rotax 912 (80 HP) on Creigh

> ton Smiths aircraft and it has proven quite reliable.  His unit was a Fligh

> t Data Systems  unit called the FC 10 with dual fuel flows (red cubes).  It

> worked very well even with the very low fuel flows of the 912.  I had neve

> r heard of Flight Data Systems and the unit is a bit on the cheap looking s

> ide, but it works well for less than my EI 5FPL with differential module

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