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Y connections

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roughleg(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:43 pm Post subject: Y connections

I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Pat Little

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:30 am Post subject: Y connections

Hi Pat,

I had much the same issues when I wired my BD-4C. I blogged about my splicing at the bottom of this article on my website: https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/07/19/physical-electrical-considerations-when-mounting-avionics/

I found that that worked pretty well for three wires.

You will find that technique more specifically written up at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html

Also try Googling "site:aeroelectric.com splice"

Cheers,

    -- Art Z.





On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Pat Little



 	


-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:08 am Post subject: Y connections

I would recommend joining the two wires at the connection to the switch.

Anything else reduces reliability and complicates future maintenance and 

upgrades.

Unnecessary inline splices can be a red flag for a possible future 

purchaser.

Ken



On 09/08/2018 7:30 AM, Art Zemon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Pat,



 I had much the same issues when I wired my BD-4C. I blogged about my 

 splicing at the bottom of this article on my website: 

 https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/07/19/physical-electrical-considerations-when-mounting-avionics/

 I found that that worked pretty well for three wires.



 You will find that technique more specifically written up at 

 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html



 Also try Googling "site:aeroelectric.com <http://aeroelectric.com> splice"



 Cheers,

   -- Art Z.

 On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:roughleg(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



     I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that

     is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge

     of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how

     things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the

     aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe

     lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a

     single switch I need to figure out the right components and

     techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines.

     It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining

     two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

     Thanks,

     Pat Little



 -- 

 https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/



 /"We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."/

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: Y connections

You could as well go for a switch with a double set of contacts, they do 

fit in the standard spacing of switches in my plane, no splicing and 

less load on the contacts.



Cheers Werner

 	  Quote: 	
		  > On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com 

> <mailto:roughleg(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>     I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that

>     is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge

>     of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how

>     things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the

>     aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe

>     lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a

>     single switch I need to figure out the right components and

>     techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines.

>     It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining

>     two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

>     Thanks,

>     Pat Little

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: Y connections

Pat:

You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?

Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  

K.I.S.S.  M.E.





Barry





On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Pat Little

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:09 am Post subject: Y connections

At 12:42 AM 8/9/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

 Thanks,

 Pat Little 	




 https://goo.gl/c85k64 



 https://goo.gl/FMCY9K 



 https://goo.gl/Lqhv2t 



 Any of the above techniques will do the job . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

roughleg(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Y connections

Thanks Bob. I like the first one, PIDG-style, and the practical example at the bottom of that page looks like what I will be doing. I have to make an inline splice with 3 #20 wires. Appreciate the quick helpful response.

Pat

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 10:16 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    At 12:42 AM 8/9/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?

 Thanks,

 Pat Little 	




 https://goo.gl/c85k64 



 https://goo.gl/FMCY9K 



 https://goo.gl/Lqhv2t 



 Any of the above techniques will do the job . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: Y connections

At 12:26 PM 8/9/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks Bob. I like the first one, PIDG-style, and the practical example at the bottom of that page looks like what I will be doing. I have to make an inline splice with 3 #20 wires. Appreciate the quick helpful response. 	


  You'll need a blue pidg splice for that one.



  They taught us how to do that when I worked at Boeing

  back in '61 . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: Y connections

I salvaged about a 10 pound rat's nest       of wire that was a very small chunk of an airliner wiring harness.       (There's an airliner recycler fairly close to me.) Several ounces       of that 10 pounds consisted of crimp splices, fanning a single       wire out to two, three,  and more wires. Boy, those airliner       builders sure are careless, wasteful critters....

       

       On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Pat:

         

         

         You           DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires           directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that           extra weight?

         

         

         Yes,           that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a           wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.            AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  

         

         

         K.I.S.S.            M.E.

         

         

         

         

         Barry

         

         

       

       

                On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		                          I               am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750               that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good               working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but               am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft               world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking               through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left               and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need               to figure out the right components and techniques for               making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It               seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for               joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the               right direction?

             Thanks,

             Pat               Little

           

         	
       

     	
     

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roughleg(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:14 am Post subject: Y connections

I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor 

By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 

Pat



 	  Quote: 	
		  



       On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Pat:

         

         

         You           DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires           directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that           extra weight?

         

         

         Yes,           that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a           wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.            AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  

         

         

         K.I.S.S.            M.E.

         

         

         

         

         Barry

         

         

       

       

                On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		                          I               am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750               that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good               working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but               am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft               world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking               through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left               and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need               to figure out the right components and techniques for               making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It               seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for               joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the               right direction?

             Thanks,

             Pat               Little

           

         	
       

     	
     

   

  	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#m_595321410154492491_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Y connections

Pat:



The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires.  That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.  

BUT!  That is now.  What about in the future?  What if a product comes out that will not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn’t it be nice to already have your system wired and ready to accept the change?

Sticking with what already exists, wouldn’t you want to protect the switch as well?

What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection?  

Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!

Protect what you can.

Design the best you can.

Build with the skills required.

Barry 



On Friday, August 10, 2018, Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor 

By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 

Pat



 	  Quote: 	
		  



       On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Pat:

         

         

         You           DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires           directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that           extra weight?

         

         

         Yes,           that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a           wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.            AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  

         

         

         K.I.S.S.            M.E.

         

         

         

         

         Barry

         

         

       

       

                On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		                          I               am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750               that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good               working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but               am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft               world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking               through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left               and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need               to figure out the right components and techniques for               making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It               seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for               joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the               right direction?

             Thanks,

             Pat               Little

           

         	
       

     	
     

   

  	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#m_792930088833232346_m_595321410154492491_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

  

	




 	


-- 

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:07 am Post subject: Y connections

I have two wing tip strobes and two beacons. Each has a pos, neg and synch wire. I ran them all to a small terminal block with three studs to connect them.



Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve.



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 06:19 Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor 

By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 

Pat



 	  Quote: 	
		  



       On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Pat:

         

         

         You           DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires           directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that           extra weight?

         

         

         Yes,           that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a           wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.            AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  

         

         

         K.I.S.S.            M.E.

         

         

         

         

         Barry

         

         

       

       

                On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		                          I               am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750               that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good               working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but               am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft               world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking               through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left               and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need               to figure out the right components and techniques for               making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It               seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for               joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the               right direction?

             Thanks,

             Pat               Little

           

         	
       

     	
     

   

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: Y connections

The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires.  That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.



   But from what risk?  Can you hypothesize an avionics

   failure that would benefit from fault protection

   OUTSIDE the device?



 BUT!  That is now.  What about in the future?  What if a product comes out that will

 not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn't it be nice to already have your

 system wired and ready to accept the change?



   But who might design a 'new' device that is not already

   independently immunized from known and quantified

   external effects? DO-160, Mil-Std-704 and countless

   commercial/industrial design guides strive for minimizing

   the effects of external risks to system components and

   appliances. 



 Sticking with what already exists, wouldn't you want to protect the switch as well?

 What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection?  

 Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!



   Keep in mind that for over a century, airplanes (indeed

   most vehicles) have been hauling around thousands of TONS

   of circuit protection never called upon to do

   its job: prevent a hard fault from (1) creating

   an untenable risk and (2) preventing the effects of

   a fault from propagating across multiple systems.



   In nearly 60 years of driving and 50 years of working

   on airplanes and flying them, I can count fuse blowing

   events on the order of ten or less. Countless

   fuses and breakers have gone to the scrap yard

   never having been called upon to do its job.



   While interesting to hypothesize about 'new' or

   'future' challenges to low risk design, let us

   not ignore the foundations on which the science

   of our craft is based. The well of knowledge and

   lessons-learned is rich and deep. I wouldn't

   discourage anyone for searching a root cause

   and preventing re-occurrence. But let's be

   cautious about conjuring up prophylactics against

   heretofore unknown demons.

      



 

   Bob . . .

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: Y connections

Huh!  I don’t know what point you are trying to make???



I see you like Mil Specs when you can warp them.

Wasn’t it you that proselytizes with dogma that fuses and CB’s do not protect the avionics, they protect the wires?

So, what is wrong about hoping that someone - hopefully not bogged down with Mil-Specs developed a faster acting CB?  

I just don't get the point you are trying to make?

I really try not to hypothesize, if you do too much of that one can convince the Millennium Generation that black is white.  Actually, that is not too hard to do!

Barry





On Friday, August 10, 2018, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires.  That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.



   But from what risk?  Can you hypothesize an avionics

   failure that would benefit from fault protection

   OUTSIDE the device?



 BUT!  That is now.  What about in the future?  What if a product comes out that will

 not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn't it be nice to already have your

 system wired and ready to accept the change?



   But who might design a 'new' device that is not already

   independently immunized from known and quantified

   external effects? DO-160, Mil-Std-704 and countless

   commercial/industrial design guides strive for minimizing

   the effects of external risks to system components and

   appliances. 



 Sticking with what already exists, wouldn't you want to protect the switch as well?

 What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection?  

 Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!



   Keep in mind that for over a century, airplanes (indeed

   most vehicles) have been hauling around thousands of TONS

   of circuit protection never called upon to do

   its job: prevent a hard fault from (1) creating

   an untenable risk and (2) preventing the effects of

   a fault from propagating across multiple systems.



   In nearly 60 years of driving and 50 years of working

   on airplanes and flying them, I can count fuse blowing

   events on the order of ten or less. Countless

   fuses and breakers have gone to the scrap yard

   never having been called upon to do its job.



   While interesting to hypothesize about 'new' or

   'future' challenges to low risk design, let us

   not ignore the foundations on which the science

   of our craft is based. The well of knowledge and

   lessons-learned is rich and deep. I wouldn't

   discourage anyone for searching a root cause

   and preventing re-occurrence. But let's be

   cautious about conjuring up prophylactics against

   heretofore unknown demons.

      



 

   Bob . . .

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