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Saber369(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine. |
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Sounds like maybe rear mag wasn't on. The engine will "try to start" with the mags off. Double check both mags are on before next attempt. But please be sure both mags are off before you pull the prop through. In fact DOUBLE CHECK THE MAGS.
Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
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dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine. |
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each of these engines starts just a little differently... it really is
an art more than science...
Most effort but most success starting sequence is:
MAGS OFF!!!!
Throttle open about 1/2 inch
pull 9-12 blades to clear engine
pressurize carb with wobble pump (see fuel pressure on gauge)
Repeat the next 2 items 4-6 times
1. pull primer until it fills with fuel then push
2. pull one blade
Leave primer in but "cocked" slightly to the side... this causes a
richer mixture and allows you to prime after hitting starter if needed
The engine is now "primed to fire"
Mags ON!! in back cockpit
For Housai just turn MAGs ON in front cockpit (For M14P wait until you
hit starter and 2nd blade goes by; then turn on mags)
Hit starter.... engine should start or at least fire some on second
blade....
DO NOT move throttle until it is running... use primer and/or wobble
pump to keep pressure and give a little more fuel
Only reason engine not firing (no fuel, too little/too much fuel, no
spark)
If engine coughs/starts but dies then you have fuel and have
spark... you are either over or under priming.
once engine is firing move throttle to keep it at high idle until warm
and move primer back to "center" position
My Normal way to start:
MAGS OFF!!!!
Throttle open about 1/2 inch
pull 9-12 blades to clear engine
pressurize carb with wobble pump (see fuel pressure on gauge)
primer pull and allow to fill, prime 3 times then an extra shot of prime
for each 10degC the engine is below 50c but no more than 6 total
Leave primer in but "cocked" slightly to the side... this causes a
richer mixture and allows you to prime after hitting starter if needed
The engine is now "primed to fire"
Mags ON!! in back cockpit
For Housai just turn MAGs ON in front cockpit (For M14P wait until you
hit starter and 2nd blade goes by; then turn on mags)
Hit starter.... engine should start or at least fire some on second
blade....
DO NOT move throttle until it is running... use primer and/or wobble
pump to keep pressure and give a little more fuel
Only reason engine not firing (no fuel, too little/too much fuel, no
spark)
If engine coughs/starts but dies then you have fuel and have
spark... you are either over or under priming.
once engine is firing move throttle to keep it at high idle until warm
and move primer back to "center" position
the trick is really to know the following for your engine:
how many shots of prime when the engine is at specific temperatures
(hot/warm/cold)
once firing, how to adjust wobble/primer/throttle to keep it going.
Former yak-52/ CJ / M14PCJ owner
Bear
On 10/12/2018 12:14 AM, motoadve wrote:
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hess737(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine. |
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It will start on the shower of sparks while the start button is depressed.
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
[quote] On Oct 12, 2018, at 1:05 PM, JON <Saber369(at)comcast.net> wrote:
Sounds like maybe rear mag wasn't on. The engine will "try to start" with the mags off. Double check both mags are on before next attempt. But please be sure both mags are off before you pull the prop through. In fact DOUBLE CHECK THE MAGS.
Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine. |
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Something to be kept in mind is that not all Mags are created equal. Some have centrifugal advance and some do not. I'll leave it to Dennis to explain the exact timing differences between the two and how to set them up. He is the expert in that regard. I am talking about M9F and M35 mags here.
I would not advise turning the Mags on when starting a M-14 engine with M9F mags before the engine is actually running, as they have fixed timing with two rotor fingers instead of one. There is an external coil in this design that provides spark energy to a dedicated rotor finger that results in the timing being retarded on the engine during start. The reason this was done was to prevent a kickback during start and also to provide easier cranking. What is most important is the prevention of kick back, where the prop suddenly stops and spins backwards for a split second. This sudden reversal can cause damage, most likely to the accessory drive shaft, which requires engine removal and tear down to replace. Thus this design actually allows the engine to start running on the external coil providing spark, and then once the engine starts, the mags can be quickly turned on which uses the more advanced "finger" on the rotor for normal operation.
Turning the mags on before engine start, regardless of how many blades have gone by is playing with fire. The mag can indeed provide a spark even at cranking rpm, and this can easily cause a kick back. The Russians who designed this engine actually did know what they were doing, and modifying something so simple as a starting procedure comes with a risk unless you are cognizant of all the design theory.
That being said, turning the mags on early with an engine equipped with M9F mags does not mean the engine is instantly going to kick back and be screwed up. You can more than likely get away with it many times before it bites you in the ass. That said, it was important enough for the design engineers to address.
This is not the case with M35 mags, as they have springs and spinning weights that advance and retard the timing based on RPM just like an old car distributor.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of dabear(at)damned.org [dabear(at)damned.org]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 8:36 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine.
each of these engines starts just a little differently... it really is
an art more than science...
Most effort but most success starting sequence is:
MAGS OFF!!!!
Throttle open about 1/2 inch
pull 9-12 blades to clear engine
pressurize carb with wobble pump (see fuel pressure on gauge)
Repeat the next 2 items 4-6 times
1. pull primer until it fills with fuel then push
2. pull one blade
Leave primer in but "cocked" slightly to the side... this causes a
richer mixture and allows you to prime after hitting starter if needed
The engine is now "primed to fire"
Mags ON!! in back cockpit
For Housai just turn MAGs ON in front cockpit (For M14P wait until you
hit starter and 2nd blade goes by; then turn on mags)
Hit starter.... engine should start or at least fire some on second
blade....
DO NOT move throttle until it is running... use primer and/or wobble
pump to keep pressure and give a little more fuel
Only reason engine not firing (no fuel, too little/too much fuel, no
spark)
If engine coughs/starts but dies then you have fuel and have
spark... you are either over or under priming.
once engine is firing move throttle to keep it at high idle until warm
and move primer back to "center" position
My Normal way to start:
MAGS OFF!!!!
Throttle open about 1/2 inch
pull 9-12 blades to clear engine
pressurize carb with wobble pump (see fuel pressure on gauge)
primer pull and allow to fill, prime 3 times then an extra shot of prime
for each 10degC the engine is below 50c but no more than 6 total
Leave primer in but "cocked" slightly to the side... this causes a
richer mixture and allows you to prime after hitting starter if needed
The engine is now "primed to fire"
Mags ON!! in back cockpit
For Housai just turn MAGs ON in front cockpit (For M14P wait until you
hit starter and 2nd blade goes by; then turn on mags)
Hit starter.... engine should start or at least fire some on second
blade....
DO NOT move throttle until it is running... use primer and/or wobble
pump to keep pressure and give a little more fuel
Only reason engine not firing (no fuel, too little/too much fuel, no
spark)
If engine coughs/starts but dies then you have fuel and have
spark... you are either over or under priming.
once engine is firing move throttle to keep it at high idle until warm
and move primer back to "center" position
the trick is really to know the following for your engine:
how many shots of prime when the engine is at specific temperatures
(hot/warm/cold)
once firing, how to adjust wobble/primer/throttle to keep it going.
Former yak-52/ CJ / M14PCJ owner
Bear
On 10/12/2018 12:14 AM, motoadve wrote:
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Re: What is the proper starting procedure? Housai engine. |
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I would also add the following:
If you are solo and getting fed up of jumping up and down on and off the wing, prime 3, pull 3, prime 3, pull 3 also works.
Also (Huosai ONLY!!!!!):
If you know your engine and have a decent amount of air pressure (30+), prime it as you turn it over. I do two shots initially, set the throttle, set the mags (which is why you can't do it on the M14P) and prime one shot per blade until it catches (usually four).
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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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