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Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

On 1/6/2019 8:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

   Do a Z-14 and make them totally independent

   of each other.


	


This is what I implemented on my RV-10.  I did a very straight up Z-14 

with 40 and 20 amp alternators.  For the first 500 hours or so I've 

flown with the 2 buses interconnected.  Regulator voltage levels were 

staggered but not on purpose.  My usual operational procedure was to 

start on 1 battery with my (3) power hungry, unswitched MFDs running on 

the other battery.  Bob helped me understand that this was exactly the 

opposite of the way I should be running things.



After swapping out the light weight starter that came with the Van's 

engine package (too high a momentary current draw turning over the 

IO540), I began doing all starts with both batteries and buses 

interconnected.  Then I disconnect them for flight.   I've run that way 

for the last 600 hours.



Running on 2 separate batteries, alternators and buses makes most any 

failure both readily apparent and easily recoverable in flight.  At one 

point I had a LRC3 fail but the Z-14 made it reasonable for me continue 

my multi-leg trip, VFR-only,  before returning  to my home shop for repair.



The Z-14 is  a very robust design and easy to implement in the RV-10.

---

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supik

Joined: 22 Aug 2018
Posts: 70

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

 	  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  On 1/6/2019 8:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 ï¿½ Do a Z-14 and make them totally independent

 ï¿½ of each other.



	


This is what I implemented on my RV-10.ï¿½ I did a very straight up Z-14 

with 40 and 20 amp alternators.ï¿½ For the first 500 hours or so I've 

flown with the 2 buses interconnected.ï¿½ Regulator voltage levels were 

staggered but not on purpose.ï¿½ My usual operational procedure was to 

start on 1 battery with my (3) power hungry, unswitched MFDs running on 

the other battery.ï¿½ Bob helped me understand that this was exactly the 

opposite of the way I should be running things.



After swapping out the light weight starter that came with the Van's 

engine package (too high a momentary current draw turning over the 

IO540), I began doing all starts with both batteries and buses 

interconnected.ï¿½ Then I disconnect them for flight. ï¿½ I've run that way 

for the last 600 hours.



Running on 2 separate batteries, alternators and buses makes most any 

failure both readily apparent and easily recoverable in flight.ï¿½ At one 

point I had a LRC3 fail but the Z-14 made it reasonable for me continue 

my multi-leg trip, VFR-only,ï¿½ before returningï¿½ to my home shop for repair.



The Z-14 isï¿½ a very robust design and easy to implement in the RV-10.

---

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While I like the Z-14 architecture (it is very much similar to heavy iron logic) -it requires 2 batteries. My design goal is 1 batt + 2 alternators.

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_________________
Igor

RV10 in progress

supik

Joined: 22 Aug 2018
Posts: 70

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

 	  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  On 1/6/2019 8:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 ï¿½ Do a Z-14 and make them totally independent

 ï¿½ of each other.



	


...ï¿½ Regulator voltage levels were 

staggered but not on purpose.ï¿½  .. 	




Thanks for sharing this info, good to know that they don't like to be setup at same set point if operating on a common bus.

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_________________
Igor

RV10 in progress

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:24 am Post subject: Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

On 1/7/2019 3:01 PM, supik wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote:

> On 1/6/2019 8:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>

>>   Ã¯Â¿Â½ Do a Z-14 and make them totally independent

>>   Ã¯Â¿Â½ of each other.

>>

>>

> ...Ã¯Â¿Â½ Regulator voltage levels were

> staggered but not on purpose.Ã¯Â¿Â½  ..



 Thanks for sharing this info, good to know that they don't like to be setup at same set point if operating on a common bus.



I didn't mean to imply that at all.Â  At one point I did get them 
	


adjusted to the same voltage and ran that way for sometime while I was 

still running interconnected 100% of the time - no problem what so 

ever.Â  It still happens that I'll run interconnected because I forget to 

disconnect them after takeoff.Â  The only liability in running 

interconnected with both regulators set at roughly the same level is 

that I may not immediately be aware of say a failing regulator or 

alternator.Â  Otherwise there seems to be zero impact.



Two related issues:



1) I mounted my regulators on the back of the firewall which can be a 

very difficult place to access on the '10.Â  I was unable to easily 

adjust the voltage level on the regulator so I just let it stay 

'staggered' until I came up with a customized screwdriver that permitted 

adjustment.



2) You have to pay attention to where you tap the bus voltage for 

measurement and display.Â  Turned out that taking the voltage picked up 

by my GRT EIS for one bus and taking the voltage picked up by my GRT 

EFIS for the other bus did not produce comparable values.Â  It took me 

awhile to figure that one out.

---

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supik

Joined: 22 Aug 2018
Posts: 70

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Sifting design goals and establishing protocols

 	  Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  On 1/7/2019 3:01 PM, supik wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote:

> On 1/6/2019 8:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>

>>   Ã¯Â¿Â½ Do a Z-14 and make them totally independent

>>   Ã¯Â¿Â½ of each other.

>>

>>

> ...Ã¯Â¿Â½ Regulator voltage levels were

> staggered but not on purpose.Ã¯Â¿Â½  ..



 Thanks for sharing this info, good to know that they don't like to be setup at same set point if operating on a common bus.



I didn't mean to imply that at all.Â  At one point I did get them 

	


adjusted to the same voltage and ran that way for sometime while I was 

still running interconnected 100% of the time - no problem what so 

ever.Â  It still happens that I'll run interconnected because I forget to 

disconnect them after takeoff.Â  The only liability in running 

interconnected with both regulators set at roughly the same level is 

that I may not immediately be aware of say a failing regulator or 

alternator.Â  Otherwise there seems to be zero impact.



Two related issues:



1) I mounted my regulators on the back of the firewall which can be a 

very difficult place to access on the '10.Â  I was unable to easily 

adjust the voltage level on the regulator so I just let it stay 

'staggered' until I came up with a customized screwdriver that permitted 

adjustment.



2) You have to pay attention to where you tap the bus voltage for 

measurement and display.Â  Turned out that taking the voltage picked up 

by my GRT EIS for one bus and taking the voltage picked up by my GRT 

EFIS for the other bus did not produce comparable values.Â  It took me 

awhile to figure that one out.

---

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Thanks for sharing your experience!

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_________________
Igor

RV10 in progress

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