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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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I am currently converting an aircraft that has no electrical system whatsoever to a toal loss system (no alternator) with a battery that is used for starting only..My question is as follows: For starting only, do I just need a starter contactor wired directly to the battery with a fat wire and a fused small wire for its coil connected to a momentary contact switch on the panel? Is there any need for a master contactor? And if I later decide to add a couple of small current drawing devices such as a hand-held gps and an intercom, can they also be directly connected to the battery with small fused wires? It seems that I would still want to avoid running a master contactor due to its current draw. Thanks for any advice.
Ivan Haecker Â
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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:14 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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Ivan
Consider a manual battery switch that can be operated from the cockpit.
Does the same thing as a battery contactor but uses no current. Mount it
in the cockpit or use a mechanical link to it so it can be turned off
from within the cockpit. Here is an example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Cut-Off-Disconnect-Kill-Switch-w-Removable-Key-Power-Cutoff-Anti-Theft-/192839346979
You don't mention the engine type. As long as you use a robust momentary
starter engage switch there is no need for a separate starter contactor
if using an automotive starter that has an integral solenoid and
contacts. Some antique starters without an internal solenoid would need
a starter contactor. I use a key switch rated for 25 amps as those
solenoids draw significant current. When the key is in my pocket I know
that no one is going to accdently hit the starter. A separate starter
contactor is advised if using a small light duty momentary start switch.
Ken
On 12-Mar-19 1:17 AM, H. Ivan Haecker wrote:
| Quote: | I am currently converting an aircraft that has no electrical system
whatsoever to a toal loss system (no alternator) with a battery that is
used for starting only..My question is as follows: For starting only, do
I just need a starter contactor wired directly to the battery with a fat
wire and a fused small wire for its coil connected to a momentary
contact switch on the panel? Is there any need for a master contactor?
And if I later decide to add a couple of small current drawing devices
such as a hand-held gps and an intercom, can they also be directly
connected to the battery with small fused wires? It seems that I would
still want to avoid running a master contactor due to its current draw.
Thanks for any advice.
Ivan Haecker
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Total Loss Electrical System |
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Yes, your plan is OK.
B and C has a schematic without a master contactor for aerobatic aircraft.
https://bandc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/420-506_revB_with_bom.pdf
A master contactor is useful for shutting of all electrical power in case of an
immanent forced landing to minimize the chances of sparks and fire. But if
there are only a few light loads protected by 3 amp fuses, hopefully those fuses
will quickly blow without arcing and sparking. ATC fuses are closed and might
contain sparks better than ATO fuses. The "C" stands for Closed and the "O"
stands for Open.
Another option besides a battery contactor or heavy duty manual switch is to
use either a solid state relay or small automotive relay for shutting off power to
avionics only.
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Joe Gores |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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At 12:17 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | I am currently converting an aircraft that has no electrical system whatsoever to a toal loss system (no alternator) with a battery that is used for starting only..My question is as follows: For starting only, do I just need a starter contactor wired directly to the battery with a fat wire and a fused small wire for its coil connected to a momentary contact switch on the panel? Is there any need for a master contactor? And if I later decide to add a couple of small current drawing devices such as a hand-held gps and an intercom, can they also be directly connected to the battery with small fused wires? It seems that I would still want to avoid running a master contactor due to its current draw. Thanks for any advice.
Ivan Haecker  |
Consider these options:
[img]cid:.0[/img]
If your starter has a built in contactor/
solenoid (as most modern offers do), consider the
second drawing. If the starter has no
contactor with an alternative engagement
mechanism, then the first drawing is worth
consideration.
If you're planning on having the battery 'maintained'
between flights, it could be quite small assuming
it's capable of the necessary cranking currents.
What kind of engine are we talking about?
Bob . . .
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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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The starter is a B&C for a C-85-12 Continental. The B&C kit came with a starter contactor, but does have a jumper wire on the back of the starter. The battery I chose is Shorai lithium/iron motorcycle type (LFX18L1-BS12) with 18Ah. Note:preliminary tests show that it will spin the prop quite rapidly! I do like the idea of a manual interuption of the battery ground wire to disconnect the battery.
Ivan
On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 10:33 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:17 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | I am currently converting an aircraft that has no electrical system whatsoever to a toal loss system (no alternator) with a battery that is used for starting only..My question is as follows: For starting only, do I just need a starter contactor wired directly to the battery with a fat wire and a fused small wire for its coil connected to a momentary contact switch on the panel? Is there any need for a master contactor? And if I later decide to add a couple of small current drawing devices such as a hand-held gps and an intercom, can they also be directly connected to the battery with small fused wires? It seems that I would still want to avoid running a master contactor due to its current draw. Thanks for any advice.
Ivan Haecker  |
 Consider these options:
[img]cid:169728f20b3564870b71[/img]
 If your starter has a built in contactor/
 solenoid (as most modern offers do), consider the
 second drawing. If the starter has no
 contactor with an alternative engagement
 mechanism, then the first drawing is worth
 consideration.
 If you're planning on having the battery 'maintained'
 between flights, it could be quite small assuming
 it's capable of the necessary cranking currents.
 What kind of engine are we talking about?
 Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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At 11:01 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | | The starter is a B&C for a C-85-12 Continental. The B&C kit came with a starter contactor, but does have a jumper wire on the back of the starter. The battery I chose is Shorai lithium/iron motorcycle type (LFX18L1-BS12) with 18Ah. Note:preliminary tests show that it will spin the prop quite rapidly! I do like the idea of a manual interuption of the battery ground wire to disconnect the battery. |
Yes, that's probably the easiest legacy
engine to get started. The lithium battery
should do the job. A battery switch wouldn't
hurt anything . . . but as long as you
keep the battery 'maintained', likelihood
of contactor welding is nil.
You could use either of the wiring diagrams
I posted. If you use the external contactor,
then you'll need to add the jumper wire from
"main" to "S" terminals on the starter
engagement solenoid/contactor.
Bob . . .
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echristley(at)att.net
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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One thing you don't want to experiment with is shorting that lithium battery to ground. Lead-acid battery will spark and make you jump. The lithium batteries....good God....just don't do that. The welding capability is amazing.
On Tuesday, March 12, 2019, 12:04:45 PM EDT, H. Ivan Haecker <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote:
The starter is a B&C for a C-85-12 Continental. The B&C kit came with a starter contactor, but does have a jumper wire on the back of the starter. The battery I chose is Shorai lithium/iron motorcycle type (LFX18L1-BS12) with 18Ah. Note:preliminary tests show that it will spin the prop quite rapidly! I do like the idea of a manual interuption of the battery ground wire to disconnect the battery.
Ivan
On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 10:33 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:17 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote: | Quote: | | I am currently converting an aircraft that has no electrical system whatsoever to a toal loss system (no alternator) with a battery that is used for starting only..My question is as follows: For starting only, do I just need a starter contactor wired directly to the battery with a fat wire and a fused small wire for its coil connected to a momentary contact switch on the panel? Is there any need for a master contactor? And if I later decide to add a couple of small current drawing devices such as a hand-held gps and an intercom, can they also be directly connected to the battery with small fused wires? It seems that I would still want to avoid running a master contactor due to its current draw. Thanks for any advice. Ivan Haecker  |
Consider these options: [img]cid:3pvb4wTJ2DWsLGAZnNYJ[/img] If your starter has a built in contactor/ solenoid (as most modern offers do), consider the second drawing. If the starter has no contactor with an alternative engagement mechanism, then the first drawing is worth consideration. If you're planning on having the battery 'maintained' between flights, it could be quite small assuming it's capable of the necessary cranking currents. What kind of engine are we talking about?
Bob . . .
|
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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At 11:55 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | At 11:01 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | | The starter is a B&C for a C-85-12 Continental. The B&C kit came with a starter contactor, but does have a jumper wire on the back of the starter. The battery I chose is Shorai lithium/iron motorcycle type (LFX18L1-BS12) with 18Ah. Note:preliminary tests show that it will spin the prop quite rapidly! I do like the idea of a manual interuption of the battery ground wire to disconnect the battery. |
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Do you plan on any other electro-whizzies
in the airplane or just the starter?
Bob . . .
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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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I may want to run a hand-held gps or an I-pad. And an intercom for the occasional passenger. Thje plane is mainly used for local low and slow joy riding. And have no fear Ernest. I have no intension of exploring the welding capacity of that battery, especially when installed in my airplane!Â
Ivan
On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:15 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 11:55 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | At 11:01 AM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | | The starter is a B&C for a C-85-12 Continental. The B&C kit came with a starter contactor, but does have a jumper wire on the back of the starter. The battery I chose is Shorai lithium/iron motorcycle type (LFX18L1-BS12) with 18Ah. Note:preliminary tests show that it will spin the prop quite rapidly! I do like the idea of a manual interuption of the battery ground wire to disconnect the battery. |
|
 Do you plan on any other electro-whizzies
 in the airplane or just the starter?
 Bob . . .
|
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: Total Loss Electrical System |
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At 01:25 PM 3/12/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | | I may want to run a hand-held gps or an I-pad. And an intercom for the occasional passenger. Thje plane is mainly used for local low and slow joy riding. And have no fear Ernest. I have no intension of exploring the welding capacity of that battery, especially when installed in my airplane! |
Okay, bring power to those devices
through an in-line fuse right at the
hot side of the starter contactor.
No other switching necessary . . .
no bus structure.
Starting the engine takes but a few
percent off the battery. Running a
few mini electro-whizzies for the
duration of the flight is trivial.
Wouldn't make this any more complicated
than it needs to be . . .
Bob . . .
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