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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:47 am Post subject: Fuel - Mogas |
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I believe nearly every parallel valve -540 engine was certified on 91/96 octane avgas. Of course, that fuel had mostly disappeared when I got my license in 1974.
However, most engines in type certificated airframes with engines that were certified on that fuel were capable of obtaining a 91 octane mogas STC, excepting those where airframe issues precluded its use.
My question is whether any -10 users have contemplated use of mogas. Yesterday I was at Bountiful Skypark in Salt Lake area, preparing for takeoff when another -10 departed. It is one airport I am aware of that offers 91 octane, ethanol free, mogas...partly to support their fleet of Rotax powered LSA trainers. Rotax not only approves its use, but extends oil change intervals to double what is prescribed when using 100LL. My main concern is less any effect on the engine, and more whether mogas has any impact on the Pro-Seal used in the tanks.
So, just looking for whether there is any experience out there. Obviously not considering anything less than 91 octane and not anything with ethanol.
Kelly
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Kelly McMullen
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:02 am Post subject: Fuel - Mogas |
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Research Turbo Eddie on vansairforce blog. He has had thousands of hours with togas. Perhaps 4000 hrs plus.
| Quote: | On May 7, 2019, at 7:45 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
I believe nearly every parallel valve -540 engine was certified on 91/96 octane avgas. Of course, that fuel had mostly disappeared when I got my license in 1974.
However, most engines in type certificated airframes with engines that were certified on that fuel were capable of obtaining a 91 octane mogas STC, excepting those where airframe issues precluded its use.
My question is whether any -10 users have contemplated use of mogas. Yesterday I was at Bountiful Skypark in Salt Lake area, preparing for takeoff when another -10 departed. It is one airport I am aware of that offers 91 octane, ethanol free, mogas...partly to support their fleet of Rotax powered LSA trainers. Rotax not only approves its use, but extends oil change intervals to double what is prescribed when using 100LL. My main concern is less any effect on the engine, and more whether mogas has any impact on the Pro-Seal used in the tanks.
So, just looking for whether there is any experience out there. Obviously not considering anything less than 91 octane and not anything with ethanol.
Kelly
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Fuel - Mogas |
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As I’m sure you know, Avgas octane is not the same as car gas octane. 91 car gas is 3-4 points lower than 91 Avgas, so approach this with care. I believe there is or was someone at Concord CA (KCCR) running his -10 with one tank of 100LL for takeoff/other full power, and one tank of car gas for cruise. I haven’t heard from him in some time.
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Bob Turner
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:17 am Post subject: Fuel - Mogas |
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Exactly the way I would approach it. While the octane isn't the same, a
number of aircraft with exactly the same cylinders have been granted
STC's with 91 mogas. Cherokee 180, for example....same cylinders, just
carbureted. Where I operate, DA is rarely below 2000, and often above
3000, so full power isn't possible. However, my concerns have to do with
the seals in the fuel injection unit and and the Proseal in the tanks.
No injected engines have STC approval, except some big Continentals,
that I can see. Materials compatibility is of more concern than octane.
As you say, one can taxi and take-off on 100LL, and switch after
reaching altitude. Right now I would be hesitant to leave any mogas in a
tank for any period of time.
On 5/9/2019 2:58 AM, Bob Turner wrote:
| Quote: |
As I’m sure you know, Avgas octane is not the same as car gas octane. 91 car gas is 3-4 points lower than 91 Avgas, so approach this with care. I believe there is or was someone at Concord CA (KCCR) running his -10 with one tank of 100LL for takeoff/other full power, and one tank of car gas for cruise. I haven’t heard from him in some time.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489141#489141
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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tjennings07(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: Fuel - Mogas |
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I have run a few hundred hour burning 90 octane E-0 pump gas through our Cherokee 140 with the Petersen STC. The engine and plugs prefer E-0 to Avgas. Worrying about engine materials interaction with ethanol/mogas/pump E-0 is only part of the equation as Kelly points out. The STC covers the engine and also the airframe. Our Cherokee airframe and o320 have an STC while other airframes with the same engine do not have the STC. The fuel delivery system in the aircraft is as important as is the differing performance they fuel may deliver (boiling point, power output, gph burn rate, etc). Additionally the E-0 will sour faster than the 100LL. The 100LL is plentiful on cross country flights which is where the RV-10 shines. We dolly a 125 gallon E-0 fuel cart to the field for the Cherokee which will rarely fly far enough way to warrant getting gas away from the fuel cart. The savings are around $0.70 a gallon.
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