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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Jon,A 12 foot long package is going to cost a bundle by the time you get it, as most shippers charge "over length" when packages exceed 8 feet. Best to have him coil it in 3 foot square box if you need 12 feet.
Doug
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:48 AM Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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As I recall, longest tubing run I encountered in my CJ6 was between the fwd and aft landing gear handles, def more than 4'...Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:48 PM Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
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hill(at)doctor-hill.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:33 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Jon,
Aircraft Spruce has exceptionally high quality ¼ inch 5052-0 aluminum tubing that is almost as stiff as stainless steel.
Here are the numbers:
OD: 0.250
ID: 0.152
Thickness: 0.049
Length: Comes is 6 ft. sections, but will ship this in 12 ft. sections if you want.
Part Number: 03-39250-12
Price: $28.80 for 6 ft.
$57.60 for 12 feet.
Web: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/alumtube_5052.php
The advantage of using ¼ tubing is that 37° flaring tools are readily available. Imperial stopped making a 37° flaring tool for 6 mm tubing a few years back.
Hope this helps.
Warren Hill
N464TW
Mesa, AZ
| Quote: | On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Jon;
I don’t know off hand what the longest line is in the CJ but, as Doug noted, shipping 4 m (12.5 ft.) lengths will be very costly. I would think cutting in half would cover for most of the CJ.
Is this the standard 6mm X 1mm tubing ? If so I would not recommend attempting to coil it for shipping. This is a high quality tubing which I believe is a direct equivalent to our 5052 “O” cond. standard. It is not amenable to coiling!
The junk you can buy in a coil is thin wall 3000 series alum and is not acceptable for use in any pressurized aircraft system.
Walt
From: Jon Boede (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 11:41 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: longest pneumatic line
I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
 Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:12 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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My tubing is riding along on a friend’s container shipment out of Poland. I asked what I could give him for shipping and he said, “buy me lunch some time.”
It’s a 40’ container so some sticks of tubing off to one side is easy peasy.
On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:04 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | Jon;
I don’t know off hand what the longest line is in the CJ but, as Doug noted, shipping 4 m (12.5 ft.) lengths will be very costly. I would think cutting in half would cover for most of the CJ.
Is this the standard 6mm X 1mm tubing ? If so I would not recommend attempting to coil it for shipping. This is a high quality tubing which I believe is a direct equivalent to our 5052 “O” cond. standard. It is not amenable to coiling!
The junk you can buy in a coil is thin wall 3000 series alum and is not acceptable for use in any pressurized aircraft system.
Walt
From: Jon Boede (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 11:41 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak-List: longest pneumatic line
I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:26 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Hi Warren;
That is actually a pretty fair price for 1/4" X 0.049" 5052!
The standard and most used 1/4" X 0.035" (while a whole lot cheaper)
actually does not meet the strength requirements of the stock 6mm X 1mm CJ
tubing. Assuming of course that the material spec. is equivalent and I have
no reason to believe otherwise.
I used to maintain a stock of 1/4" X 0.049" for a batch of Harvards & T6's.
Required for the 1200 psi hydraulic system. Sometimes had a hard time
finding it!
Cheers;
Walt
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:37 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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This is the 4mm ID, 1mm wall, 6mm OD stuff in the CJ, but it will be from Poland not China. They use exactly the same on the Polish helicopters.
Is there another size tubing I should ask him to put in as well?
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:25 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: longest pneumatic line
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>
Hi Warren;
That is actually a pretty fair price for 1/4" X 0.049" 5052!
The standard and most used 1/4" X 0.035" (while a whole lot cheaper)
actually does not meet the strength requirements of the stock 6mm X 1mm CJ
tubing. Assuming of course that the material spec. is equivalent and I have
no reason to believe otherwise.
I used to maintain a stock of 1/4" X 0.049" for a batch of Harvards & T6's.
Required for the 1200 psi hydraulic system. Sometimes had a hard time
finding it!
Cheers;
Walt
--
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hill(at)doctor-hill.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Walt,
Over the years I’ve used and looked at many different types of tubing. Agree. Thin wall aluminum tubing is basically a disaster with a short fuse. The base of the flare is invariably the weakest point and failures in this location are common... if not inevitable. Other, workable solutions like 6 mm alloy brake line are sturdy and certainly capable of handling higher pressures, but a small amount of copper content can lead to corrosion within the system. I believe the ¼ inch x 0.049 tubing is the way to go. It works fine with the B-nuts and collars that we already have. The main difference is that bending and flaring take more care than with soft aluminum. Assembly oil on the flaring tip is helpful and bending the tubing slowly works best.
Warren Hill
N464TW
Mesa, AZ
[quote] On Jul 23, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Warren;
That is actually a pretty fair price for 1/4" X 0.049" 5052!
The standard and most used 1/4" X 0.035" (while a whole lot cheaper) actually does not meet the strength requirements of the stock 6mm X 1mm CJ tubing. Assuming of course that the material spec. is equivalent and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
I used to maintain a stock of 1/4" X 0.049" for a batch of Harvards & T6's. Required for the 1200 psi hydraulic system. Sometimes had a hard time finding it!
Cheers;
Walt
--
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Walt,Sorry I must disagree.
In the past I have received 6mm tubing direct from the factory--COILED, but what do they know right??
"O" condition (very near the same as our 5052) is VERY amenable to coiling, far superior to any of it's "tempered" brethren in this respect. I can see no problem with a big lazy coil other than having to listen to grumpy old mechanics piss and moan about the slight inconvenience of having to straighten it back out. 😁
But in the situation at hand it seems he is shipping for free so we'll just have to hope he is getting enough to keep us all supplied!!
Doug
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:03 PM Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | Jon;
I don’t know off hand what the longest line is in the CJ but, as Doug noted, shipping 4 m (12.5 ft.) lengths will be very costly. I would think cutting in half would cover for most of the CJ.
Is this the standard 6mm X 1mm tubing ? If so I would not recommend attempting to coil it for shipping. This is a high quality tubing which I believe is a direct equivalent to our 5052 “O” cond. standard. It is not amenable to coiling!
The junk you can buy in a coil is thin wall 3000 series alum and is not acceptable for use in any pressurized aircraft system.
Walt
From: Jon Boede (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 11:41 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: longest pneumatic line
I have a chance to get some original pneumatic tubing into a container coming from Poland.
The guy is going to send straight pieces and wants to know how long... I told him at least two pieces 4 meters long. Should I tell him 5? Anybody have a feel for what the longest run of tubing is in the CJ? I want to just have stock for the future so there's not something specific I'm fixing now.
Jon
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_-2692257264761287736_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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hill(at)doctor-hill.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:58 am Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Walt,
The one area for the CJ where having this more robust tubing is mandatory is the run from the deposit filter (snot valve) to the input to the firewall pressure reducing (pop-it) valve. The line from the compressor banjo fitting to the snot valve on most CJs is original and stainless steel. The output of the M-14P compressor is well beyond 1,200 psi. Have not measured the Housai compressor, but I expect it’s something similar. After the pop-it valve, the system pressure is reduced to about 650 psi. This is probably still too high to be safe for soft aluminum with countless bends and thin areas at the base of the flare.
Another area where the pneumatic system of the CJ could be designed better is total run from the compressor to the input check valve of the pop-it valve. The air coming out of the compressor is very hot. Over time, this hot, oily air invariably degrades the check valve Chinese rubber disc and to a lesser degree the more robust Viton disc that Doug Sapp provides. Putting some supported extra bends in that one line helps cool the air before it reaches the first check valve. For my CJ, doing has extended the time between rebuilds. Easy to do and plenty of room between the edge of the firewall and the cowling.
Warren
[quote] On Jul 23, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Warren;
That is actually a pretty fair price for 1/4" X 0.049" 5052!
The standard and most used 1/4" X 0.035" (while a whole lot cheaper) actually does not meet the strength requirements of the stock 6mm X 1mm CJ tubing. Assuming of course that the material spec. is equivalent and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
I used to maintain a stock of 1/4" X 0.049" for a batch of Harvards & T6's. Required for the 1200 psi hydraulic system. Sometimes had a hard time finding it!
Cheers;
Walt
--
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Hi Jon;
Sorry for the delay. Just found your last two posts in my junk file. Happens all the time but I forget to check it!
If I had read all of your first post (re: container) I would not have suggested cutting it so I’m sure you ignored that nonsense.
There is some
8 mm tubing probably also 1 mm wall (though possibly 1.25) It can be easily replaced with AN Std. 5/16 tube but if the price is right might as well get some.
Best;
Walt
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 8:36 PM To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: longest pneumatic line
This is the 4mm ID, 1mm wall, 6mm OD stuff in the CJ, but it will be from Poland not China. They use exactly the same on the Polish helicopters.
Is there another size tubing I should ask him to put in as well?
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:25 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: longest pneumatic line
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>
Hi Warren;
That is actually a pretty fair price for 1/4" X 0.049" 5052!
The standard and most used 1/4" X 0.035" (while a whole lot cheaper)
actually does not meet the strength requirements of the stock 6mm X 1mm CJ
tubing. Assuming of course that the material spec. is equivalent and I have
no reason to believe otherwise.
I used to maintain a stock of 1/4" X 0.049" for a batch of Harvards & T6's.
Required for the 1200 psi hydraulic system. Sometimes had a hard time
finding it!
Cheers;
Walt
--
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AlaskaChang801
Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: longest pneumatic line |
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Somewhat new to my CJ and loved reading the comments on all this. One thing I will want to tackle in the future and I'm paying close attention to all the opinions. BUT, I have to ask for my education into this, where does one obtain new B-nuts. Is this something Doug sells or where do I get them?
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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Doug sells them and nice new ferrules as well.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 10:28 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Somewhat new to my CJ and loved reading the comments on all this. One thing I will want to tackle in the future and I'm paying close attention to all the opinions. BUT, I have to ask for my education into this, where does one obtain new B-nuts. Is this something Doug sells or where do I get them?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490617#490617
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pennington.construction.i
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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All roads lead to Doug Sapp
Mark
N621CJ
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 11:28 PM AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95(at)gmail.com (themilnes95(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "AlaskaChang801" <themilnes95(at)gmail.com (themilnes95(at)gmail.com)>
Somewhat new to my CJ and loved reading the comments on all this. One thing I will want to tackle in the future and I'm paying close attention to all the opinions. BUT, I have to ask for my education into this, where does one obtain new B-nuts. Is this something Doug sells or where do I get them?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490617#490617
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: longest pneumatic line |
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I normally carry a full line of CJ air fittings, plugs, and nipples.
Doug
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:28 PM AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95(at)gmail.com (themilnes95(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "AlaskaChang801" <themilnes95(at)gmail.com (themilnes95(at)gmail.com)>
Somewhat new to my CJ and loved reading the comments on all this. One thing I will want to tackle in the future and I'm paying close attention to all the opinions. BUT, I have to ask for my education into this, where does one obtain new B-nuts. Is this something Doug sells or where do I get them?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490617#490617
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List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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AlaskaChang801
Joined: 26 Jan 2018
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: longest pneumatic line |
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| dougsappllc(at)gmail.com wrote: | I normally carry a full line of CJ air fittings, plugs, and nipples.
Doug
Thanks Doug. I’ll be in touch.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:28 PM AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "AlaskaChang801" <themilnes95>
Somewhat new to my CJ and loved reading the comments on all this. One thing I will want to tackle in the future and I'm paying close attention to all the opinions. BUT, I have to ask for my education into this, where does one obtain new B-nuts. Is this something Doug sells or where do I get them?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490617#490617
===========
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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