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Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Dear forum members,



I have to report I am making great progress on my Europa Mono. Wings are on and working on the tie bar now. You can see progress here:



https://myeaa.org/MartinEuroXS



or this other site which may not have the latest stuff but goes back to the beginning of the project:



https://sites.google.com/site/martineuropaxsa291/



It's a whole airplane now! Only 10 years to go, right 



But I could use assistance from the groups knowledge base:



I wonder if I can get feedback as to possible alternatives to procure a radiator and oil cooler for my Europa XS build. I am trying with Europa but, after placing an order 12 weeks ago and getting no responses to my emails requesting updates, I think I need to research alternatives.



It is very possible Europa will come through before I order from an alternative supplier but I want to have an option if they don't.



BTW, I do appreciate that Europa is there at all and don't want to bash. When I got this used kit I didn't even think they were still around. But not answering emails is kind of rude, I think. Anyway, I can always call which I haven't yet. They are supposed to be on vacation right now.



Thanks in advanced,

Chris

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

This morning I received an email from Karen. They have the oil cooler and related fittings so I asked her to please send that (one down). Great news.



The radiator is going to be harder since, in Karen's words:



"The supplier for the radiators has sold out to a new company, but they have not passed on all the information to enable manufacture. We are trying to work through this, but it is taking time, unfortunately"



I understand. Never easy to maintain suppliers particularly in low volume items like our planes. I really appreciate the effort they put to keep Europa alive.



With that said, I am now (maybe) in radiator design mode so any information from the Europa family out there would be appreciated. My initial goal is to keep things simple by recreating the original radiator to fit the cowling and provided sheet metal parts. Any information would be appreciated.



As a Mechanical Engineer I can do a bit of research to have one made but I don't want to waste time reinventing the wheel. Dimensions and core type would help but I think most important to me would be that if anyone had a radiator made for the Europa in the past is a reference of a place to go and have it made. I will also look for all Rotax powered airplanes out there to see if I can find a radiator that would fit the Europa although not sure I will succeed in doing that.



Maybe Europa will come through once again and have one for me before I have to go the custom route. I do have a little bit of time before I must have it.



Best Regards,

Chris

Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Hi Chris



Europa have been moving all of their parts and spares operation from Yorkshire to new premises in Norfolk.  That may be the reason for the delayed response.



I have attached some photos of the radiator which might help if you need to find a custom made item.  Hopefully, Karen at Europa will be able to help find a solution.



The dimensions are:

Core is 3 3/8 inches from front to back and 3 1/2 inches tall.

Radiator body is 12 1/4 inches wide overall with 12 1/2 inches between the outside (mounting surface) of the flanges.

The inlet / outlet pipe is to suit a 1 inch hose

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_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Thanks for the info Kevin and apologies for the late reply. I am on vacation this week and that includes no computers (almost).



The info will certainly help. I still hope Europa will provide a solution but will explore options. Not that I'm too crazy about experimenting with this component but besides your reply I have not received any feedback on options. Probably people just relied on the factory supplied unit which makes sense.

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

BTW, if anyone has a serviceable XS radiator that they want to sell let me know. 



Chris

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Chris,



A worthwhile modification is to add a drain on the bottom port side of the coolant radiator.  Otherwise to drain the system you either have to siphon the coolant or pull off the hoses.  Either makes a huge mess.



Jim

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Great suggestion Jim. I will consider (If I find a cooler  ) Actually I do know I will solve this one way or another.



Chris

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Hello,

If you are interested, I have a slightly enlarged radiator manufactured in france and I can sell mine when I’ll receive the new one.

My mail : emanu(at)gmx.fr

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Thanks for the offer. An Europa owner here in the US has offered me one and is sending it to me for inspection. I will let you know if anything changes. In any case thanks again but would like to hear your experience with the modified radiator. Can you share any info?

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Ok. I should receive it in september, I’ll inform you.

But several owners there in france have already made this mod. 

(8 to 11 lines)

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

That's interesting. Especially how this larger radiator improves the cooling (issues). I went through a lot of tinkering in the first years of ownership of my XS-914-installation and finally found a good solution with the standard radiator.



However I'd think that your results are interesting also for other XS-owners. Even more so, since Europa seems to have problems in supplying the former Mocal radiator.



Therefore I'd appreciate it, if you could share your experiences, how the larger radiator copes with high OAT and longer ground runs!



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Roland, could you summarize what you did to make your standard radiator work? I am familiar with what has been written in the forum and of course Bud Yerly's writings on the subject. Since I am getting closer to installing the radiator (if I eventually get one) I am collecting all info I can on this.



Chris

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:45 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

My setup is quite standard in principal. Obviously one has to thoroughly seal all gaps in the LOWER cooling channel. I also cut away the edge of the lower cowling, which prevented the hot air from smoothly exiting the cowling behind the radiator. I only have a very narrow gap of about 5mm left between the radiator and the lower cowling for the (only 7-row !) oil cooler behind the radiator. This oil cooler overleaps 4 rows with the radiator. The 7-row oil cooler is plenty and parts of it blanked off in temperatures <20°C.



BTW thoroughly sealing the upper gap of the cooling tunnel to the cowling (below the spinner) contributed exactly ZERO to the cooling of the engine. Same went for closing up the gilles of the upper cowling - not worth the effort in my case. I sealed the gaps between upper and lower cowling as well as the rear part from upper cowling to the windscreen and the acess doors on top with Tesa sealing strips (D-profile). I wouldn't expect too much effect from the latter however.      



This setup works fine for temperatures >30°C in my Turbo-Rotax-powered Europa Trigear.



That said, it is some fiddeling (especially at the Trigear) to remove and reinstall the 3 aluminium sheets between the lower cowling and the radiator. That can be done in a more sophisticated way with epoxy (after finding the final setup) and should be much easier on the Mono, because you don't have an extra panel around the nosewheel leg.     



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Sources for Radiator and Oil Cooler

Roland,



Thanks for the info and I will copy it for reference when I install mine. It's all clear but didn't understand the part about fiddling to remove and install the 3 aluminum sheets between lower cowling and radiator. Are these the sheets that form the tunnel? What do you mean by using epoxy?



BTW, wanted to update the group in that yesterday night I finally got a radiator!!! I have to thanks the Europa Club and Jim Butcher for their effort in helping me find someone willing to sell me one. Paul McAllister in the US sold me a used one that looks great. 



The way this worked out is that I sent a note to the Europa Club asking for help and Bob Hitchcock (Secretary) replied and put me in touch with Jim B. Jim went out of his way to find me two leads (one here in the US and one in England) that together with the Emmanuele in France (though this posting) resulted in three good leads.



So thanks to all for the help so I could move forward with getting A291 up in the air.



It's kind of neat to hold the last part I was missing for my airplane in my hands and knowing I now have everything I need  Well, let's see what happens when I start installing the engine!



Regards,

Chris

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