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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
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 Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Some like it some say its a waste.
Never tried it.
Bought some, for the ones who use it.
How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
What are the benefits?
Cons? Apart from money wasted? 
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
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threein60
Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Everett Wa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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I use it all n both oil and gas. No valve or plug carbon issues.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:
Some like it some say its a waste.
Never tried it.
Bought some, for the ones who use it.
How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
What are the benefits?
Cons? Apart from money wasted?
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
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Dawg
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Can’t hurt. I like wintergreen!It’s like many things, everybody has an opinion.
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 15:43, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
<20190724_140409.jpg>
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Some say it’s a waste. Some say it cures cancer.
I just want to know if anybody’s ever tried it with Vodka.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 4:30 PM, Larry Pine <threein60(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I use it all n both oil and gas. No valve or plug carbon issues.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>
>
>
> Some like it some say its a waste.
> Never tried it.
>
> Bought some, for the ones who use it.
> How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
>
> What are the benefits?
> Cons? Apart from money wasted?
>
> --------
> www.Backcountry182.com
> Cessna 182 P
> CJ -6
>
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> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
>
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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I’m now a believer.
| Quote: | A few weeks back I wrote with a puzzling problem that I thought might be a sticky valve.
Dennis Savarese offered the following:
“Add a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil to the oil and go fly the airplane for an hour or two.?? The MMO tends to clean the valve stems and valve guides of the varnish buildup that causes valve(s) to stick. Even a couple of quarts won't hurt it.
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Absolutely solved the problem.
I understand that one should add 4oz per 10 gallons of fuel, but I don’t know the appropriate MMO to oil dosage. Arbitrarily, I added a half quart when I just changed the oil. I’m positive that someone else will pop up with the right answer.
Blitz Fox415-307-2405
On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Marvel Mystery oil |
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| threein60 wrote: | I use it all n both oil and gas. No valve or plug carbon issues.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve> wrote:
Some like it some say its a waste.
Never tried it.
Bought some, for the ones who use it.
How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
What are the benefits?
Cons? Apart from money wasted?
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
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How much Mistery oil you put on your fuel and how much on your oil?
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_________________
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6 |
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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Ya, if anyone has good experiences with MMO, I'm def interested & open to hear the positive reports... I can't say one way or another from personal experience.J
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:33 PM William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can’t hurt. I like wintergreen!It’s like many things, everybody has an opinion.
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 15:43, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
<20190724_140409.jpg>
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threein60
Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Everett Wa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:06 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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I believe Jill from M14 said in the past that she has not experienced carbon issues with values with M14p that use mmo and multi grade. I trust Jill.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 2:32 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Some say it’s a waste. Some say it cures cancer.
I just want to know if anybody’s ever tried it with Vodka.
> On Jul 30, 2019, at 4:30 PM, Larry Pine <threein60(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I use it all n both oil and gas. No valve or plug carbon issues.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some like it some say its a waste.
>> Never tried it.
>>
>> Bought some, for the ones who use it.
>> How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
>>
>> What are the benefits?
>> Cons? Apart from money wasted?
>>
>> --------
>> www.Backcountry182.com
>> Cessna 182 P
>> CJ -6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Ttail
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Marvel Mystery oil |
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In the Fuel 3ml MMO to 1 Ltr 100LL
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:22 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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In the first 200 hours of operating an M-14P, I had three cylinder pulls due to exhaust valve lead deposits. Started using MMO as much as 1/2 quart per 30 gallons. Idle was immediately smoother, no lead on valves for the following 600 hours. That being said, one of the real contributors to exhaust valve leading is low RPM combined with low cylinder head temps. M-14's are very happy to run fairly hard with CHT in range and not low. My experience over the last 20 years or so. To each their own of course but in all the long history of MMO discussions, many say it works, many say it doesn't (curious how that was determined) but no one has EVER said that it hurt their engine. So personally, I use it religiously.
Mark
-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com>
Date: 7/30/19 16:43 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery oil
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Some like it some say its a waste.
Never tried it.
Bought some, for the ones who use it.
How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
What are the benefits?
Cons? Apart from money wasted?
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
===========
List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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colin.macd(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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And our Housai does run like a sewing machine
Colin A. Macdonald
707-291-2878
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 2:32 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Some say it’s a waste. Some say it cures cancer.
I just want to know if anybody’s ever tried it with Vodka.
> On Jul 30, 2019, at 4:30 PM, Larry Pine <threein60(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I use it all n both oil and gas. No valve or plug carbon issues.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:12 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some like it some say its a waste.
>> Never tried it.
>>
>> Bought some, for the ones who use it.
>> How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
>>
>> What are the benefits?
>> Cons? Apart from money wasted?
>>
>> --------
>> www.Backcountry182.com
>> Cessna 182 P
>> CJ -6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490595#490595
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Add 6 oz. per 15 gallons of fuel. Interpolate when topping off the fuel. It's printed right on the MMO container.
Add 1 quart into the oil tank one to two hours before an oil change. Definitely fly the airplane for the one to two hour period.
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 5:46:28 PM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Ya, if anyone has good experiences with MMO, I'm def interested & open to hear the positive reports... I can't say one way or another from personal experience.J
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:33 PM William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can’t hurt. I like wintergreen!It’s like many things, everybody has an opinion.
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 15:43, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
<20190724_140409.jpg>
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| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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With all due respect to the lecturer, that is pure unadulterated B.S. !!
Marvel Mystery Oil is a product of the Marvel Oil Company, founded by Burt Pierce.[1] It is used as a fuel additive, oil additive, corrosion inhibitor, penetrating oil, and transmission leak stopper and seal relubricator
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Here's a good read about MMO use and benefits.
https://www.pipercubforum.com/marvel.htm
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 7:39:28 PM EDT, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
Add 6 oz. per 15 gallons of fuel. Interpolate when topping off the fuel. It's printed right on the MMO container.
Add 1 quart into the oil tank one to two hours before an oil change. Definitely fly the airplane for the one to two hour period.
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 5:46:28 PM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Ya, if anyone has good experiences with MMO, I'm def interested & open to hear the positive reports... I can't say one way or another from personal experience.J
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:33 PM William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can’t hurt. I like wintergreen!It’s like many things, everybody has an opinion.
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 15:43, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
<20190724_140409.jpg>
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| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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pennington.construction.i
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Dennis
Great read about MMO. I drink an ounce a day myself and my hair is now silky and much thicker. Â
But on a serious note. Â
The article said a pint 5 hours before and oil change. Â
That is in a cub that holds about 4 quarts. Should we put more in the M14P?
At oil change I put in 2 quarts. Â Every 5 quart added I put in 8 ounces. Â
I add it to the fuel per your example. Â
I bore scoped my cylinders during the last inspection before I put the plugs back. Â Â
Valve seats super clean. Â
I love the stuff.Â
Mark
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:09 PM A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Here's a good read about MMO use and benefits.
https://www.pipercubforum.com/marvel.htm
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 7:39:28 PM EDT, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Add 6 oz. per 15 gallons of fuel. Interpolate when topping off the fuel. It's printed right on the MMO container.
Add 1 quart into the oil tank one to two hours before an oil change. Definitely fly the airplane for the one to two hour period.
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 5:46:28 PM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Ya, if anyone has good experiences with MMO, I'm def interested & open to hear the positive reports... I can't say one way or another from personal experience.J
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:33 PM William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can’t hurt. I like wintergreen!It’s like many things, everybody has an opinion.
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | On Jul 30, 2019, at 15:43, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
<20190724_140409.jpg>
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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Why Add 1 quart into the oil tank one to two hours before an oil change?
Then it will be drained.
So it will work for only a couple of hrs.
What am I missing here?
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_________________
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6 |
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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Thankyou Dennis. Once again.
Mark0
96<![endif]-->-------- Original message --------
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: 7/30/19 19:52 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery oil
With all due respect to the lecturer, that is pure unadulterated B.S. !!
Marvel Mystery Oil is a product of the Marvel Oil Company, founded by Burt Pierce.[1] It is used as a fuel additive, oil additive, corrosion inhibitor, penetrating oil, and transmission leak stopper and seal relubricator. It is composed primarily of petroleum distillates, including mineral oil (60-100%), mineral spirits {10-30%}, tricresyl phosphate (an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants, 0.1-1.0%), ortho dichlorobenzene (a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1-1.0%), and para dichlorobenzene (a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%).
1,4-Dichlorobenzene
1,4-Dichlorobenzene (1,4-DCB, p-DCB, or para-dichlorobenzene, sometimes abbreviated as PDB or para) is an organi...
<![endif]--><![endif]-->
<![endif]-->Extreme pressure additive
Extreme pressure additives are usually used in applications such as gearboxes, while antiwear additives are used...
Antiwear additive
EP additives are used in applications such as gearboxes, while AW additives are used with lighter loads such as ...
Whether you choose to use it or not, I can unequivocally say "it works"! Search the Yak list and you'll find many, many people who have used it and who now swear by it.
Dennis
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 4:48:08 PM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey so, just back from Oshkosh and the many forums on engine maintenance.I asked the very same question of one engine maintenance lecturer and radial-engine owner (see pic); he replied that MMO is nothing more than 20-weight sewing machine oil with wintergreen fragrance added. Hence, he meant there is little value added by using it.
Some may say it's great, I personally don't plan to use it in my CJ6.
Justin
N280NC
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 1:19 PM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Some like it some say its a waste.
Never tried it.
Bought some, for the ones who use it.
How much to put in the oil, how much to put in the fuel?
What are the benefits?
Cons? Apart from money wasted?
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:24 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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The general thought process is that adding it to the oil acts like a type of
solvent, cleaning any buildup off of various internals. So where does all
that bad stuff go? Into the oil. There it will be in suspension and could
indeed "settle out". Thus the premise of adding it to the oil, running the
engine hard for an hour or two, then while the oil is still hot, immediately
draining it all out and adding brand new clean oil. You're draining all
that bad crap out of the engine.
Doing this the first time with an engine that has lots and lots of hours on
it should be approached with caution. Kind of like adding High Thermal
Stability oil to a turbine for the first time.
Mark
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: Marvel Mystery oil |
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I'll pull a little seniority here. I started flying when 15 (1955). My dad an A&P and foreman at Eastern Airlines, brought my brother & I a Luscomb 8a to build up our flying time. He used MMO. I've seen every decent A&P I've run into in all those years used it. Stuck valves being the primary reason. If somethings works and proven so over the years, stay with it. I've several stuck valves in both Housi and M-14p. MMO was my first and only needed answer. BTW next time at Reno take a walk though the pits and see how much MMO you see there. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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