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Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:42 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

wow - I was not aware that the factory no longer supports the mono!Â  I wonder why they still have it listed as a product on their website?

That's terrible (& sad) news.

WRT to the piston, my 2001 kit's piston is also badly corroded and I too was looking for a replacement.Â  With this news I guess if I didn't want to upgrade to the Beringer I would simply take the piston to a local machine shop and have them duplicate it (It is a very simple part - if my EAA chapter's lathe wasn't so wobbly I would have done one myself 

-Pete



On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 6:20 AM Franzgo <fg-europa(at)orange.fr (fg-europa(at)orange.fr)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Franzgo" <fg-europa(at)orange.fr (fg-europa(at)orange.fr)>

 

 Hi All,

 

 On a classic monowheel my caliper piston is a bit corroded and even with a good cleaning and polishing, after 20 years of service it would need to be replaced... As you know Europa Aircraft ltd. no longer provides any parts for the monowheel system...

 However, I have read in an old post that "The Europa caliper is a clone of the Cleveland" 

 

 As anyone has checked if the Cleveland pistons (p/n 79-00300) are the same of the Europa mono ? Spruce Aircraft does not provide any dimensions about this piston and I have neither find any information from Cleveland.

 The Europa monowheel caliper piston measures 1'3/4 in diameter (44,5mm)

 

 Thanks for your contribution,

 

 FranÃ§ois

 Europa MonoW 914

 IsÃ¨re, France

 

 --------

 Franzgo

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494291#494291

 

 

 

 

 

 

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pnsaero(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:25 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Hello FranÃ§ois, câ€™est peut Ãªtre lâ€™occasion de passer sur du Berenger!!!?

ðŸ˜‰ðŸš



Patrick

 	  Quote: 	
		   Le 15 janv. 2020 Ã  10:56, Franzgo <fg-europa(at)orange.fr> a Ã©crit :

 

 ï»¿

 

 Hi All,

 

 On a classic monowheel my caliper piston is a bit corroded and even with a good cleaning and polishing, after 20 years of service it would need to be replaced... As you know Europa Aircraft ltd. no longer provides any parts for the monowheel system...

 However, I have read in an old post that "The Europa caliper is a clone of the Cleveland" 

 

 As anyone has checked if the Cleveland pistons (p/n 79-00300) are the same of the Europa mono ? Spruce Aircraft does not provide any dimensions about this piston and I have neither find any information from Cleveland.

 The Europa monowheel caliper piston measures 1'3/4 in diameter (44,5mm)

 

 Thanks for your contribution,

 

 FranÃ§ois

 Europa MonoW 914

 IsÃ¨re, France

 

 --------

 Franzgo

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494291#494291

Franzgo

Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Rhone Alpes

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Well, maybe I was not clear, Europa no longer provides any of the old braking system and original wheel/disk for the monowheel, as they chose to replace it with the Beringer system  which includes a new rim beside a completely reformed brake.



Patrick, I am a bit reluctant to the Beringer system becauses the main tyre no longer uses airtube and, in consequence requires a far higher pressure (around 2 bar) than the previous recommended pressure (1,3 bar). For grass strips, a higher pressure is not really an issue, but for hard landing surfaces with the monowheel I really fear that it is not adapted (Bouncing and bouncing again...)



For the moment I have chosen to keep the old system with an intermediate tyre pressure (1.5 bar) which seeems to be a good compromise.



Peter, yes the piston may be machined quite easely as far as you have one in hand. And maybe it would be profitable to use 2017 alloy with anodization finish to keep it away from rust. On my aircraft I have found interesting to use Silicon Oil (brand AUTOMEC, Dot 5.0) instead of classic brake oils, in order to chase moisture from the brake pipe and also to protect all gaskets from wearing to fast.  For one year now I find that the caliper has less tendancy to grip than with the old sticky (and hygroscopic) brake liquid...

_________________
Franzgo

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Thx Franzgo,



The anodizing is a good idea.



I am currently using Dot5 as well in my classic mono. Expensive, but i like it as it is so benign.  I wonder if beringer can use it (they spec dot4).



I talked with beringer at osh, as well as emailing them, and in those interactions they claimed 18-20psi is fine. Did you find a the minimum pressure documented somewhere?



Thx,

Pete

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 17, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Franzgo <fg-europa(at)orange.fr> wrote:

 

 

 

 Well, maybe I was not clear, Europa no longer provides any of the old braking system and original wheel/disk for the monowheel, as they chose to replace it with the Beringer system  which includes a new rim beside a completely reformed brake.

 

 Patrick, I am a bit reluctant to the Beringer system becauses the main tyre no longer uses airtube and, in consequence requires a far higher pressure (around 2 bar) than the previous recommended pressure (1,3 bar). For grass strips, a higher pressure is not really an issue, but for hard landing surfaces with the monowheel I really fear that it is not adapted (Bouncing and bouncing again...)

 

 For the moment I have chosen to keep the old system with an intermediate tyre pressure (1.5 bar) which seeems to be a good compromise.

 

 Peter, yes the piston may be machined quite easely as far as you have one in hand. And maybe it would be profitable to use 2017 alloy with anodization finish to keep it away from rust. On my aircraft I have found interesting to use Silicon Oil (brand AUTOMEC, Dot 5.0) instead of classic brake oils, in order to chase moisture from the brake pipe and also to protect all gaskets from wearing to fast.  For one year now I find that the caliper has less tendancy to grip than with the old sticky (and hygroscopic) brake liquid...

 

 --------

 Franzgo

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494326#494326

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:11 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Franzgo, I chose to change my original mono wheel and brake system to a Beringer one, largely to save some weight. I use the same pressure as in the original and have had no problems with it. The braking is superior..  

There are of course quite a few mono wheels lying around from folk who have changed to trigear formation and you may well be able to locate one if you really want to stick with the original. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-17 18:36, Franzgo wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Franzgo" <fg-europa(at)orange.fr (fg-europa(at)orange.fr)>



Well, maybe I was not clear, Europa no longer provides any of the old braking system and original wheel/disk for the monowheel, as they chose to replace it with the Beringer system  which includes a new rim beside a completely reformed brake.



Patrick, I am a bit reluctant to the Beringer system becauses the main tyre no longer uses airtube and, in consequence requires a far higher pressure (around 2 bar) than the previous recommended pressure (1,3 bar). For grass strips, a higher pressure is not really an issue, but for hard landing surfaces with the monowheel I really fear that it is not adapted (Bouncing and bouncing again...)



For the moment I have chosen to keep the old system with an intermediate tyre pressure (1.5 bar) which seeems to be a good compromise.



Peter, yes the piston may be machined quite easely as far as you have one in hand. And maybe it would be profitable to use 2017 alloy with anodization finish to keep it away from rust. On my aircraft I have found interesting to use Silicon Oil (brand AUTOMEC, Dot 5.0) instead of classic brake oils, in order to chase moisture from the brake pipe and also to protect all gaskets from wearing to fast.  For one year now I find that the caliper has less tendancy to grip than with the old sticky (and hygroscopic) brake liquid...



--------

Franzgo





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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:29 pm Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

With my Beringer I particularly like having mounted it low on the pilotâ€™s control column which allows left hand breaking with right hand on throttle 



Sent from my iPhone 



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jan 17, 2020, at 3:13 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:



ï»¿  

Franzgo, I chose to change my original mono wheel and brake system to a Beringer one, largely to save some weight. I use the same pressure as in the original and have had no problems with it. The braking is superior..  

There are of course quite a few mono wheels lying around from folk who have changed to trigear formation and you may well be able to locate one if you really want to stick with the original. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-17 18:36, Franzgo wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Franzgo" <fg-europa(at)orange.fr (fg-europa(at)orange.fr)>



Well, maybe I was not clear, Europa no longer provides any of the old braking system and original wheel/disk for the monowheel, as they chose to replace it with the Beringer system  which includes a new rim beside a completely reformed brake.



Patrick, I am a bit reluctant to the Beringer system becauses the main tyre no longer uses airtube and, in consequence requires a far higher pressure (around 2 bar) than the previous recommended pressure (1,3 bar). For grass strips, a higher pressure is not really an issue, but for hard landing surfaces with the monowheel I really fear that it is not adapted (Bouncing and bouncing again...)



For the moment I have chosen to keep the old system with an intermediate tyre pressure (1.5 bar) which seeems to be a good compromise.



Peter, yes the piston may be machined quite easely as far as you have one in hand. And maybe it would be profitable to use 2017 alloy with anodization finish to keep it away from rust. On my aircraft I have found interesting to use Silicon Oil (brand AUTOMEC, Dot 5.0) instead of classic brake oils, in order to chase moisture from the brake pipe and also to protect all gaskets from wearing to fast.  For one year now I find that the caliper has less tendancy to grip than with the old sticky (and hygroscopic) brake liquid...



--------

Franzgo





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Franzgo

Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Rhone Alpes

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Hi All,



When visiting the Beringer facility in 2018 I was told that a higher pressure was necessary with the tubeless system in order to keep the tyre firmly inserted in the rim. That's why I was not confident with this new wheel. And another problem is the deflation quite accelerated (vs tube-type tyre), in case of perforation, no ?



Last question, maybe someone has kept the original master cylinder hand-controled with the Beringer wheel ? 

I would prefer to keep it, personnaly I don't really like the brake command on the control stiick.



On the other hand, the Beringer system is truly quite lighter, yes,  but yet VERY EXPENSIVE (More than 1200 euros) I think.



To finish about Silicon Oil (5.0, as 5.1 is not silicon), it is certain that it can be used with the Beringer system, because it complies with ANY GASKETS, is not flammabe, non toxic, non hygroscopic and whatsoever... 

Moreover, no more fastidious purges, this oil is a lifetime product !



FranÃ§ois

MonoW 914 Classic S/N 36

Vienne, France

_________________
Franzgo

JohnFrance

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Location: Grenoble France

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Good morning,

A few comments regarding this thread in no particular order.



In nearly all cases a punctured tubeless tyre will deflate slower than tubed tyres and they donâ€™t overheat due to the friction between the inner tube and tyre in normal use.



Aluminium 2017 is not recommended for anodising, there are better alloys available.



The brake control on the stick is different and requires getting used to but it is practical as it frees up the right hand for other tasks. 



While Beringer give 2 bars as the operating pressure I have mine at 1,5 to 1,6 bars and find the handling satisfactory. 



Lastly, Beringer also propose a bulkhead mounted slave cylinder that can be mounted in the Classic wheel tunnel.



Regards,

John

_________________
Europa mono Nr 192

Franzgo

Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Rhone Alpes

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Thank you John for your remarks about the Beringer monoW brake.



Based on your experience with this system, do you think that the original master cylinder volume displacement would be enough to be used with the Beringer Caliper ?



If so, one could keep the monoW controls as primarily designed in the cockpit and only replace the wheel and caliper/piping with Beringer parts.

The price would also be "softer"...



About the issue of original piston rusting and for rebuilding a new part, what kind of alloy would you recommend (6061 ? 2024 ?...)



BTW thanks John for the spare wheel, It saved me again after an awfull tyre deflation during landing on last september.



FranÃ§ois

_________________
Franzgo

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:54 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Another point worth mentioning is that you can (& I have with approval of LAA) fit the Beringer brake lever on the central console in the same position as the original, thus allowing access to the brake from either seat. David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-18 09:09, JohnFrance wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com (77alembert(at)gmail.com)>



Good morning,

A few comments regarding this thread in no particular order.



In nearly all cases a punctured tubeless tyre will deflate slower than tubed tyres and they donâ&euro;&trade;t overheat due to the friction between the inner tube and tyre in normal use.



Aluminium 2017 is not recommended for anodising, there are better alloys available.



The brake control on the stick is different and requires getting used to but it is practical as it frees up the right hand for other tasks. 



While Beringer give 2 bars as the operating pressure I have mine at 1,5 to 1,6 bars and find the handling satisfactory. 



Lastly, Beringer also propose a bulkhead mounted slave cylinder that can be mounted in the Classic wheel tunnel.



Regards,

John



--------

Europa mono Nr 192





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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:23 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Cool.  Is the system installed in that way easier to use (ie- less lever pressure)?



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jan 18, 2020, at 6:15 AM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:



ï»¿  

Another point worth mentioning is that you can (& I have with approval of LAA) fit the Beringer brake lever on the central console in the same position as the original, thus allowing access to the brake from either seat. David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-18 09:09, JohnFrance wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com (77alembert(at)gmail.com)>



Good morning,

A few comments regarding this thread in no particular order.



In nearly all cases a punctured tubeless tyre will deflate slower than tubed tyres and they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t overheat due to the friction between the inner tube and tyre in normal use.



Aluminium 2017 is not recommended for anodising, there are better alloys available.



The brake control on the stick is different and requires getting used to but it is practical as it frees up the right hand for other tasks. 



While Beringer give 2 bars as the operating pressure I have mine at 1,5 to 1,6 bars and find the handling satisfactory. 



Lastly, Beringer also propose a bulkhead mounted slave cylinder that can be mounted in the Classic wheel tunnel.



Regards,

John



--------

Europa mono Nr 192





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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Not sure whether you are comparing it with the original or a joystick mounting. Don&rsquo;t know about the latter (although I can see no reason to think it would be different) but it certainly seems to need less pressure than the original and to be more effective. David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-18 12:22, Pete wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   Cool.  Is the system installed in that way easier to use (ie- less lever pressure)?

   	  Quote: 	
		  On Jan 18, 2020, at 6:15 AM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:  

Another point worth mentioning is that you can (& I have with approval of LAA) fit the Beringer brake lever on the central console in the same position as the original, thus allowing access to the brake from either seat. David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2020-01-18 09:09, JohnFrance wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com (77alembert(at)gmail.com)>



Good morning,

A few comments regarding this thread in no particular order.



In nearly all cases a punctured tubeless tyre will deflate slower than tubed tyres and they donâ&euro;&trade;t overheat due to the friction between the inner tube and tyre in normal use.



Aluminium 2017 is not recommended for anodising, there are better alloys available.



The brake control on the stick is different and requires getting used to but it is practical as it frees up the right hand for other tasks. 



While Beringer give 2 bars as the operating pressure I have mine at 1,5 to 1,6 bars and find the handling satisfactory. 



Lastly, Beringer also propose a bulkhead mounted slave cylinder that can be mounted in the Classic wheel tunnel.



Regards,

John



--------

Europa mono Nr 192





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494332#494332

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JohnFrance

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Location: Grenoble France

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Here is some information I pulled from the web FranÃ§ois



ï»¿ Based on your experience with this system, do you think that the original master cylinder volume displacement would be enough to be used with the Beringer Caliper ?



Probably but that will depend on the ratio of the surface area between the slave and master cylinders between the two systems as well a the length of the drake lever arm. Don't forget to check compatibility of the hydraulic fluid you intend using with the seal materials. 



If so, one could keep the monoW controls as primarily designed in the cockpit and only replace the wheel and caliper/piping with Beringer parts. 

The price would also be "softer"... 



Yes, but donâ€™t forget to purchase the pressure limiter included in the Beringer kit.



About the issue of original piston rusting and for rebuilding a new part, what kind of alloy would you recommend (6061 ? 2024 ?...



According to the documentation in the link below â€œWhen hard anodising, the best results are usually found with 6061 and 6082 alloysâ€



The tolerance for the outside diameter of your piston and seal groove should be clearly annotated as final dimensions, after anodising. A 50 micron layer should be sufficient. The reason for this is the material â€œswellsâ€ by about half of the thickness of the layer so on a piston that will add 2x25 micron to its diameter. 



As aluminium is not a strong as the steel piston you are replacing it might be necessary to increase the skirt thickness of the piston.  



https://www.clintonaluminum.com/the-best-aluminum-for-anodizing/



A possible company you could use for anodising is:

https://www.eloxalplus.com/

_________________
Europa mono Nr 192

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

what diameter is the piston? 

Perhaps I have a bit of aircraft precipitation hardened stainless steel suitable, that I could cut off a couple of inches for you.



Barry

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am Post subject: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Both my pistons are aluminum.  I don't think they are anything special.  Look like 6061 to me.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 19, 2020, at 10:39 AM, tennant <barrington.tennant(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 what diameter is the piston? 

 Perhaps I have a bit of aircraft precipitation hardened stainless steel suitable, that I could cut off a couple of inches for you.

 

 Barry

 

 --------

 Barry Tennant

 D-EHBT

 At EDLM  -  Germany

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494348#494348

Franzgo

Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Rhone Alpes

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Thanks a lot for your acute answers John.

As mechanical solicitations on the piston are mostly in shearing, 6061 may be indeed a good choice, and it is easier machined than 2017.

If I can't find any "fresh" new piston, then I will make rebuild one this way.



Barry, the original MonoW Caliper Piston diameter is 1''3/4 (44,5mm), a dimension quite frequent in the Europa (External diameter of the torque tube, and of the pitch longitudinal tube in particular...)

I confirm that all pistons I had in hands were in aluminium alloys. Thanks anyway for your help !

_________________
Franzgo

LeeVaughan

Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Location: Monroe Iowa

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

I have the Beringer manual lever on my control stick with the original factory monowheel calipers and it works very well.  It takes less than .75 inch of travel on the handle to start braking.  It has a locking pin in the braking position allowing it to be used as a parking brake which is also very effective.  It has enough grab to hold the plane in place during full power a run up.



The lever just clears the knobs on the GNS430 when full forward though, no room to spare.

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_________________
Lee
N69XS A069

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Hi Franzgo



I owned a Cessna 170 for 19 years and the caliper piston looks awful close to the original Europa. The tailwheel springs were not very tight and if there was no differential braking it would make for interesting landings unless landing on grass or directly into the wind. Letting the bird sit outside, corrosion would develop on the caliper bore and rotor. A landing or 2 and the pads would wear, and allow the O-ring seal to contact corroded bore and leak. If lucky you would get a little breaking with pumping before fluid was gone. What a hassle of changing calipers and pistons. Not exactly "blessed" but we machined a new piston from 6061 after being frustrated and instead of machining 1 O-ring grove, machined 2 and put a little Silicone grease between O-rings. That kept the bore for the real deal O-ring clean and worked for us for over 15 years without a glitch. It was a real hazard losing brakes. I always to try and use "blessed" components on type certificated aircraft, but if something "blessed" endangers my neck, safety comes first.  Cleaned and replace O-rings only a few times in 15 years and bore always looked great. My IA was completely impressed. If I have a problem with my Europa piston, that's going to be my plan. Ron P.

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

I have some 44,45 - 1 3/4" 15/5PH or 46mm 17/4PH tolerance h11 if anyone would like to make stainless pistons.

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

Franzgo

Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Rhone Alpes

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel Brake Calliper Piston

Lee, you eventually proved that the original caliper is not so bad, if it works with the Beringer master cylinder... Anyway thanks, as it is always interesting to have your individual experiences since all of our planes are quite different...

Thanks for your feedback about the Cessna Brakes, Ron, I could not imagine certified aircraft with such a bad braking system...

The "double grove" system would be interesting to be tested on a new designed piston for the Europa original Caliper, though I am not completely sure it is thick enough for this...

_________________
Franzgo

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