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Snazpappy
Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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I have a YAK 52TW, with a M-14PF engine, which has the M9-35M mags. With these mags I was told there is no shower of sparks or start coil, as it has a centrifugal advance mechanism built into the mag.
Does anyone know what the START IGNIT circuit breaker is used for?
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n13472(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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a centrifugal advance mechanism built into the mag.
does nothing for the start only after eng is running
you will need a shower of sparks unit.
The CB is for shower of sparks ant to power the start air valve
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:05 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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I don't think that is correct – or at least it is not clear. The position is
that there are two different magnetos – the M9F, significantly the most
popular and the M9-35M. They are externally identical, and the only internal
difference is that the -35M has an internal centrifugal advance. The point
being that the timing of the spark needs to be retarded for an engine to
start, but once it is running then it needs more "advanced". So the -35M
automatically goes to a retarded position when it is stationary or at very
low rpm. Once the revolutions go beyond this low base, then the spark
increasingly is advanced.
On the other hand, with the M9F, the spark position is fixed, but it gets
round the requirement for a retarded spark in starting by having a magneto
rotor with two contacts. In order to start, the magnetos are off and the
"shower of sparks" is automatically energised, and provides sparks through
the retarded rotor contact. Once the engine starts, you will then switch on
the magnetos; releasing the "shower of sparks", and then the magneto
provides sparks through the more advanced contact on the rotor.
It is relatively simple to change a magneto from one version to the other.
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:13 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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Richard Goode explains the difference between the M9F and -35M mags quite
well, but what is still less than clear is the way the actual ignition
voltage is developed with each. Both have an internal high voltage coil as
part of a standard magneto design. Both mags are "geared" causing the
magnets to spin faster than crankshaft speed The moving magnetic field is
what induces voltage into the high voltage coil that is used to fire the
spark plugs. The big difference between the two is that the M9 uses a rotor
with two contacts. One connects to the output of the mags internal coil
through the cigarette lead. The other is not connected to anything internal
to the mag, instead it is fed directly from an additional high voltage wire
running external of the mag to a second high voltage assembly identical to
what was used in the Model-T Ford.
This external starter coil uses an internal relay that works like this:
When power is applied to the relay, its internal solenoid changes the
position of the relay contacts that then REMOVES power to the relay itself
and the contacts then close again, powering up the relay solenoid again, and
the process repeats. Rapidly! This creases what is commonly called "A
Buzzer", because that is exactly what it sounds like. The output of this
buzzer relay is a square wave, which then is fed into the primary of the
external high voltage coil, and the output from that is fed directly to the
second point on the rotor in the mag, discussed earlier and also by Richard.
This point on the rotor is "retarded" (fires the plugs later than normal)
for starting. The starter circuit breaker in the aircraft goes to this
starter coil assembly and the air starter valve, also mentioned in another
reply.
The -35M mags on the other hand have a rotor with only one contact point
firing the plugs. The rotor itself is moved by a centrifugal advance
mechanism so it is retarded at start, and then is advanced to normal run
timing as engine RPM increases, and it open pretty quickly to that setting.
However, it has no external start coil as what was necessary in the M9F
design, which can be a problem if the mags do not spin fast enough to fire
the spark plugs. Let me stop here though and say that -35M mags will OFTEN
start simply by turning on the mags and hitting the start button. However,
a way to make sure they do is to increase the output of the mags internal
high voltage coil during start. The way this can be done is to hook the
Mags P lead to a buzzer relay, identical to the one described earlier for
the external starting coil used in the M9F. Except here, there is no
additional coil, instead the buzzer supplies square wave 28 volts to the P
lead itself, thus energizing the mags internal high voltage coil with
pulsating DC (actually a square wave), that causes the internal coil to
supply "boosted" high voltage to the spark plugs through the rotor which is
in its retarded position regardless of the movement and speed of the mags
internal spinning magnets. This buzzer box method of boosting a magneto
coil is common to many different makes and models of aircraft.
Mark Bitterlich
--
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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Mark understands these technicalities far better than I! But an amusing
angle is that I have a 1930s Bentley which, on the steering column has a
manual advance and retard for the ignition. So one typically starts it fully
retarded, and once started it is advanced. However, once hot, and the engine
stationary, if you move the "advance and retard control" quickly from fully
advanced to fully retarded the car will normally start – completely silently
and rather impressively!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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dbflr
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Location: PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:50 am Post subject: Re: START IGNIT CB |
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| markbitterlich(at)embarqm wrote: |
-35M mags will OFTEN
start simply by turning on the mags and hitting the start button. However,
a way to make sure they do is to increase the output of the mags internal
high voltage coil during start. The way this can be done ../
Mark Bitterlich
-- |
"OFTEN" ??? that's how it always starts. SOP
"can be done... "??? that's how it IS done
PK-45 ignition unIt supplies low voltage pulses to -35 mag's internal coil
KP-4716 unit feeds high voltage 900Hz square wave directly to -9F distributor's second pin
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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The starting coil PK-45 does not supply additional voltage to the ignition coil. It is totally and completely separate/isolated from the ignition coil. The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down. The trailing finger fires the spark plug approximately 7 degrees after top dead center or when the piston is moving down on the power stroke.
As Richard explained, the engine spark needs to be retarded (read after TDC) in order for it to start. The M9F fixed timing mag must have a starting coil (thus the two finger rotor in the mag). The M9-35 mag is, again as Richard explained, a centrifugal advance magneto. It only requires a single finger rotor because its initial timing is set to a specified number of degrees AFTER TDC. Once the engine fires and the rotation increases, the centrifugal advance mechanical mechanism advances the timing to before TDC and continues to fire BTDC until shut down.
http://m-14p.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Centrifugal-Advanced-Magneto-Timing-Procedures.pdf
Dennis
On Friday, April 17, 2020, 3:53:15 PM EDT, dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dbflr" <le_vix(at)hotmail.com (le_vix(at)hotmail.com)>
markbitterlich(at)embarqm wrote:
| Quote: | -35M mags will OFTEN
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| Quote: | start simply by turning on the mags and hitting the start button. However,
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| Quote: | a way to make sure they do is to increase the output of the mags internal
|
| Quote: | high voltage coil during start. The way this can be done ../
|
"OFTEN" ??? that's how it always starts. SOP
"can be done... "??? that's how it IS done
PK-45 ignition unIt supplies low voltage pulses to -35 mag's internal coil
KP-4716 unit feeds high voltage 900Hz square wave directly to -9F distributor's second pin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495867#495867
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.comhttp://wiki.matronics.com
http://ww======
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:23 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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OOPS! I miss spoke. I was thinking about the KP-4716 starting coil (Not the PK-45)
used with the fixed timing mags used on the M14.
Dennis
On Friday, April 17, 2020, 3:53:15 PM EDT, dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dbflr" <le_vix(at)hotmail.com (le_vix(at)hotmail.com)>
markbitterlich(at)embarqm wrote:
| Quote: | -35M mags will OFTEN
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| Quote: | start simply by turning on the mags and hitting the start button. However,
|
| Quote: | a way to make sure they do is to increase the output of the mags internal
|
| Quote: | high voltage coil during start. The way this can be done ../
|
"OFTEN" ??? that's how it always starts. SOP
"can be done... "??? that's how it IS done
PK-45 ignition unIt supplies low voltage pulses to -35 mag's internal coil
KP-4716 unit feeds high voltage 900Hz square wave directly to -9F distributor's second pin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495867#495867
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.comhttp://wiki.matronics.com
http://ww======
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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Mr. Dbflr, ... is that a name, title, what? Please feel free to write your own full and complete explanation anytime. But if you can't find the time or make the effort to do so, at least show a small amount of respect for those that do.
That aside, the relay points in the external high voltage coil assembly are adjustable for gap, which of course changes the frequency of the square wave, which by the way is not as critical as the high voltage output. Typically the adjustment is made to avoid coil saturation while reaching maximum power output which can be determined roughly by achieving maximum spark gap bridging.
And no, you're incorrect. I.E. "WRONG". The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine. Examples include some YAK-52TW's and my good friend Hal Bakers 450 horse power M-14PW in his Radial Rocket.
A good thing to remember is that there are a lot of variations in these engines and their installations. No one knows "everything" there is to know. Not me and ... Not you either.
Mark Bitterlich
-------- Original message --------
From: dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 4/17/20 15:50 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: START IGNIT CB
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dbflr" <le_vix(at)hotmail.com>
markbitterlich(at)embarqm wrote:
| Quote: |
-35M mags will OFTEN
start simply by turning on the mags and hitting the start button. However,
a way to make sure they do is to increase the output of the mags internal
high voltage coil during start. The way this can be done ../
Mark Bitterlich
--
|
"OFTEN" ??? that's how it always starts. SOP
"can be done... "??? that's how it IS done
PK-45 ignition unIt supplies low voltage pulses to -35 mag's internal coil
KP-4716 unit feeds high voltage 900Hz square wave directly to -9F distributor's second pin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495867#495867
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:49 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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That's just too cool!
Richard, I just rebuilt my 68 Camaro again after Hurricane Florence flooded my hangars. Put in a Blue Print 632 cu big block. 834 hp on pump gas, normally aspirated. Wish you were here to take it for a drive.
Mark
-------- Original message --------
From: Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>
Date: 4/17/20 13:55 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: START IGNIT CB
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>
Mark understands these technicalities far better than I! But an amusing
angle is that I have a 1930s Bentley which, on the steering column has a
manual advance and retard for the ignition. So one typically starts it fully
retarded, and once started it is advanced. However, once hot, and the engine
stationary, if you move the "advance and retard control" quickly from fully
advanced to fully retarded the car will normally start – completely silently
and rather impressively!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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pennington.construction.i
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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Mr. Bitterlich
You are completely mistaken. Your 68 doesn’t have a big block.
That is a MONSTER block.
Mark Pennington.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 5:54 PM mark bitterlich <
markbitterlich(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:
[quote] That's just too cool!
Richard, I just rebuilt my 68 Camaro again after Hurricane Florence
flooded my hangars. Put in a Blue Print 632 cu big block. 834 hp on pump
gas, normally aspirated. Wish you were here to take it for a drive.
Mark
-------- Original message --------
From: Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>
Date: 4/17/20 13:55 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: START IGNIT CB
richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>
Mark understands these technicalities far better than I! But an amusing
angle is that I have a 1930s Bentley which, on the steering column has a
manual advance and retard for the ignition. So one typically starts it
fully
retarded, and once started it is advanced. However, once hot, and the
engine
stationary, if you move the "advance and retard control" quickly from fully
advanced to fully retarded the car will normally start – completely
silently
and rather impressively!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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Ttail
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: START IGNIT CB |
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Thread Drift.
MarkPennigton ... trying to get in touch with you from another thread ref Oil vent system you used in your CJ6 M14P.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16775062&sid=b8325eaba985b5950139addc88dcfeb5
Can you pm me please or Email to:
ttail&internode.on.net
Cant PM you inside here on the Yak list as you dont have that option enabled.
.
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dbflr
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Location: PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: START IGNIT CB |
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one "expert" wrote :
"The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine."
SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing.
another "expert" revealed:
" The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down."
no it's not. because PK-45 is a LOW VOLTAGE output device. what part of "low" is so confusing ? didn't you read this thread ? PK-45 works with
M9-35 and there's no "trailing finger" in it.
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romaine_richard(at)yahoo.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:21 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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An HS-6A will hand prop with mags on without using the start button/shower of sparks... and the engine does not need to be hot. Not SOP, but something to respect when moving the prop.
Cheers, Rich
Sent from my iPhone
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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If you read the next post I made, DBFLR, starting with “Oops”, you would have seen I immediately corrected myself.
At least I DO sign my name to my posts
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Apr 17, 2020, at 9:11 PM, dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

one "expert" wrote :
"The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine."
SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing.
another "expert" revealed:
" The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down."
no it's not. because PK-45 is a LOW VOLTAGE output device. what part of "low" is so confusing ? didn't you read this thread ? PK-45 works with
M9-35 and there's no "trailing finger" in it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495879#495879
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:23 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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And at least you're an "expert" and not an ass-hat Dennis. Just sayin. Have a nice day and remember the next time some poor soul calls you for help FOR FREE that not all people are as rude and obnoxious as this troll.
And yes Dennis is an expert who has taught classes on these engines and airframes WORLD WIDE.
I'm just a retired Marine.
Mark Bitterlich
New Bern N.C. (EWN)
First hangar on the left dbflr
-------- Original message --------
From: Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: 4/18/20 07:33 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: START IGNIT CB
--> Yak-List message posted by: Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
If you read the next post I made, DBFLR, starting with “Oops”, you would have seen I immediately corrected myself.
At least I DO sign my name to my posts
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Apr 17, 2020, at 9:11 PM, dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dbflr" <le_vix(at)hotmail.com>
one "expert" wrote :
"The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine."
SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing.
another "expert" revealed:
" The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down."
no it's not. because PK-45 is a LOW VOLTAGE output device. what part of "low" is so confusing ? didn't you read this thread ? PK-45 works with
M9-35 and there's no "trailing finger" in it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495879#495879
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pennington.construction.i
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:39 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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So. Just to jump on the Dennis wagon.
He is my go to M14P resource.
He has assisted me more than I can count.
Mark Pennington.
M14P Powered CJ.
On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:27 AM mark bitterlich <
markbitterlich(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:
[quote] And at least you're an "expert" and not an ass-hat Dennis. Just sayin.
Have a nice day and remember the next time some poor soul calls you for
help FOR FREE that not all people are as rude and obnoxious as this troll
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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AND Mark Bitterlich is also an expert who has helped hundreds of people on this list when they've had issues. Especially when it comes to electrical issues.
Dennis
On Saturday, April 18, 2020, 11:25:35 AM EDT, mark bitterlich <markbitterlich(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:
And at least you're an "expert" and not an ass-hat Dennis. Just sayin. Have a nice day and remember the next time some poor soul calls you for help FOR FREE that not all people are as rude and obnoxious as this troll.
And yes Dennis is an expert who has taught classes on these engines and airframes WORLD WIDE.
I'm just a retired Marine.
Mark Bitterlich
New Bern N.C. (EWN)
First hangar on the left dbflr
-------- Original message --------
From: Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: 4/18/20 07:33 (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: START IGNIT CB
--> Yak-List message posted by: Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
If you read the next post I made, DBFLR, starting with “Oops”, you would have seen I immediately corrected myself.
At least I DO sign my name to my posts
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Apr 17, 2020, at 9:11 PM, dbflr <le_vix(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dbflr" <le_vix(at)hotmail.com>
one "expert" wrote :
"The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine."
SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing.
another "expert" revealed:
" The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down."
no it's not. because PK-45 is a LOW VOLTAGE output device. what part of "low" is so confusing ? didn't you read this thread ? PK-45 works with
M9-35 and there's no "trailing finger" in it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495879#495879
= - The Yak-List Em= - p; -Ma=================
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dbflr
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:14 am Post subject: Re: START IGNIT CB |
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indeed. i missed it. then i respectively retract my comment
| dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote: | If you read the next post I made, DBFLR, starting with “Oops”, you would have seen I immediately corrected myself.
At least I DO sign my name to my posts
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Apr 17, 2020, at 9:11 PM, dbflr wrote:

one "expert" wrote :
"The -35 Mag equipped engine is often started without a "PK-45" or any other well known device supplying "low voltage pulses" to the P lead. How? Ungrounding the P lead and using electric start to crank the engine."
SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing.
another "expert" revealed:
" The PK-45 starting coiling is connected directly to the trailing finger of the rotor rotating in the counterclockwise direction and supplies a constant spark to that finger and thus to the spark plug wire contact point in the distributor cap for as long as the start button is held down."
no it's not. because PK-45 is a LOW VOLTAGE output device. what part of "low" is so confusing ? didn't you read this thread ? PK-45 works with
M9-35 and there's no "trailing finger" in it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495879#495879
|
|
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markbitterlich(at)embarqm
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: START IGNIT CB |
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Indeed. How about being respectful enough to sign your posts with your real name?
Anonymous postings that attempt to correct what others write with no references and no name are worthless.
You said: "SURE ! you can start many engines by spooling it up to 80+% and then flipping ignition switch. is that SOP ? NO ! read the original manual instead of arguing."
There is no "universal manual" for all aircraft that have M-14's mounted or use -35M mags. And I know of no electric starter that spins an M-14 at 80% . However I do know of two aircraft that have an M-14, electric start, -35M mags, and simply unground the P lead to start their engines. The person writing the original question has a 52TW, and some of those had electric start, some had pneumatic, and you can even have it with both. Is that in your manual? You're the one arguing, I'm simply stating useful to know information, but I do admit to becoming annoyed at your responses that offer nothing of value to anyone, but then I suspect that is your intent to begin with. Otherwise why the continued refusal to sign your own name, even when asked? How about the "N" number of the aircraft you own ?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK / N4756
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