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Unimproved field flying with the Europa

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jonthayer(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:14 am Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses.

Regards,

Jon

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SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:38 am Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

Hi Jon 

  

Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the equivalent to a glider because there  is a big prop at the front waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying. 

  

My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself. 

  

Iâ€™ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol 

   

Kind Regards 

  

Steve Ivell 

E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk (steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk) 

 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer

 Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa 

 

 

    

Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the  mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses. 

  

Regards, 

  

Jon

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 187

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

I fly a tri-gear from a 500 m grass strip, not the smoothest, and it handles well.



There are those who prefer the Mono, and those the Tri-gear. 

Alan Burrill

G-OBJT



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 10 Jun 2020, at 16:41, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk> wrote:



ï»¿      <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->    

Hi Jon 

  

Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the equivalent to a glider because there  is a big prop at the front waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying. 

  

My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself. 

  

Iâ€™ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol 

   

Kind Regards 

  

Steve Ivell 

E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk (steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk) 

 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer

 Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa 

 

 

    

Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the  mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses. 

  

Regards, 

  

Jon

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

Europa48

Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

 	  jonthayer(at)sbcglobal.ne wrote: 	
		  Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses.

Regards,

Jon 	


Certainly a mono will handle rough fields better than a trigear. Like any aircraft whether mono or trigear every aircraft rehires correct handling otherwise it will bite you. The Cessna "Landamatic" that was advertised in the fifties was just an adpersons slogan.



I pay around Â£740 for my insurance with a hull value of Â£50,000 which I think is fair and not loaded because of the configuration. My three previous trigears were all around the same cost to insure.

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

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Europa48

Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

[quote="SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c"]Hi Jon 

ï¿½ 

Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the equivalent to a glider because there  is a big prop at the front waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying. 

ï¿½ 

My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself. 

ï¿½ 

Iâ€™ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol 

ï¿½  

Kind Regards 



 

 Steve, why do you find it necessary to knock the mono aircraft? It would be just as easy to say the same about the trigear variety. Each to their own and leave it at that. There has been too much negative drivel directed at the mono most of it unfounded by folk who haven't even flown one.



Your pestproof email address could do with shortening I think!!

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

Fwiw, the air-tired roller blade wheels make the outriggers almost silent (and likely reduce wear on the pivots etc).

Planes are made to fly, not drive around lol.  Just fly it on the ground as well as in the air and all is well.  I prefer to extend my flying time, not minimize it lol.  Besides, itâ€™s just way more fun.

Cheers,

Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jun 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk> wrote:



ï»¿      <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->    

Hi Jon 

  

Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the equivalent to a glider because there  is a big prop at the front waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying. 

  

My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself. 

  

Iâ€™ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol 

   

Kind Regards 

  

Steve Ivell 

E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk (steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk) 

 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer

 Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa 

 

 

    

Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the  mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses. 

  

Regards, 

  

Jon

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:32 pm Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

Hi Pete 

  

The roller blade wheels look like a real improvement and I agree that planes are for flying  but some airfields have tarmac and concrete taxiwayâ€™s.  

   

Kind Regards 

  

Steve Ivell 

Mob: 07971 128842 

E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk (steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk) 

  

 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: 10 June 2020 17:17

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa 

 

 

   

Fwiw, the air-tired roller blade wheels make the outriggers almost silent (and likely reduce wear on the pivots etc). 

  

  

  

Planes are made to fly, not drive around lol.  Just fly it on the ground as well as in the air and all is well.  I prefer to extend my flying time, not minimize it lol.  Besides, itâ€™s just way more fun. 

  

  

  

Cheers, 

  

Pete 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On Jun 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk (SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk)> wrote:   

ï»¿  

Hi Jon 

  

Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger and not the equivalent to a glider because there  is a big prop at the front waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying. 

  

My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself. 

  

Iâ€™ll now prepare to be shot down in flames by the mono lovers!! Lol 

   

Kind Regards 

  

Steve Ivell 

E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk (steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk) 

 

    

From:  owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Jon Thayer

 Sent: 10 June 2020 12:12

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Europa-List: Unimproved field flying with the Europa 

 

 

    

Just curious to get some real data on unimproved field access and  flying in the Europa.  How well does the Tri-gear handle the landings and takeoffs.  I've been told the  mono is the way to go, but can be a bit finicky during landing and takeoffs on hard pavement not to mention the real world double insurance costs... Thanks for the responses. 

  

Regards, 

  

Jon

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:52 pm Post subject: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

That's all I generally fly off of and luv it  The Europa is a packaging

efficiency masterpiece designed around that big fat sprung tire. It's like

landing on a pillow. There are many other purpose-built trigear designs.



On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 6:48 PM Steve Ivell, <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk>

wrote:



[quote] Hi Pete



 The roller blade wheels look like a real improvement and I agree that

 planes are for flying  but some airfields have tarmac and concrete

 taxiwayâ€™s.



 Kind Regards



 Steve Ivell



 Mob: 07971 128842



 E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk



 *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <

 owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Pete

 *Sent:* 10 June 2020 17:17

 *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa



 Fwiw, the air-tired roller blade wheels make the outriggers almost silent

 (and likely reduce wear on the pivots etc).



 Planes are made to fly, not drive around lol.  Just fly it on the ground

 as well as in the air and all is well.  I prefer to extend my flying time,

 not minimize it lol.  Besides, itâ€™s just way more fun.



 Cheers,



 Pete



 On Jun 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk>

 wrote:



 ï»¿



 Hi Jon



 Those with a mono will tell you they are great (and I know they are a bit

 faster) but to my mind they are the worst of all types. Not a taildragger

 and not the equivalent to a glider because there is a big prop at the front

 waiting to be pranged. I have flown in one as a passenger and the little

 outrigger wheels make a racket on hard surfaces when taxying.



 My old instructor always responded when he was asked about taildragger

 versus nosewheelâ€¦â€¦.â€how many modern aircraft donâ€™t have nosewheel

 configurationâ€? Iâ€™m sure you can answer that for yourself

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Unimproved field flying with the Europa

On the Tri vs Mono point generally, i've owned a Tri and now a Mono and having flown both have found the Tri to be a bit more versatile vs RWY surface (the Mono laps up grass).  Potentially the Tri can be at bit heavier wrt TO length (though honestly there is such a wide variation in empty weights, that comment is perhaps academic).



I too have found insurance to be very similar for the two types - so i consider that a non-issue.



But sadly, [my opinion] the perceived issues with Mono handling can and seemingly do impact its resale value.  Again, my view - that said, anything less than Â£27k GBP in flying condition is probably a real bargain.



For the recently joined/enquirers on this site; it is entirely possible to convert a Mono to a TriGear (with a 30lb weight penalty/~Â£5k parts cost). John Wighton is also working on offering both the parts and i believe the installation service, to convert (presumably either type) to a conventional Taildragger that uses spring-steel legs.  His contact email is: 

 Mods(at)theeuropaclub.org

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

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