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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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Gentlemen,
In a Europa XS mono, I’ve a RAM Performance engine based upon the Subaru EA-81; it has a one-wire, 14 volt, 55 amp. Super Mini Denso Racing Alternator with external load dump feature.Under “Details” on the “gzmotorsports.com” webpage for this alternator is the following:
| Quote: |
What is a Alternator Load Dump?
When an alternator is in operation and generating current, if the load is suddenly disconnected (for example your main kill switch activated disconnecting the battery from the alternator) the alternator voltage can spike to as high as 120 volts DC and last for as long as 400ms. Voltage spikes that high can damage sensitive electronics like MSD Boxes, Data Loggers, Delay Boxes and other racing equipment. Alternators with a load dump feature are designed to shunt that high voltage to ground if the load is suddenly disconnected, protecting your electronics. |
Q1: Is this just another name for over voltage protection which is built in or attached to an alternator?Q2: Will the use of this alternator with LiFePO4 batteries pose any special issues.
(I am in the process of swapping out 2 Odyssey PC680 batteries for EarthX ETX680 batteries; with regarding to battery charging, I do know that with the Lithium batteries I will need a charger which does not charge above 14.6V., will automatically turns off when the battery is fully charged (based on volts), and does not have a de-sulfate mode/deep conditioning mode/pulse mode.)
I have followed Bob’s Z-19 wiring schematic for single alternator w/ two batteries.
Comments & Counsel will be much appreciated,
Fred
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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 pm Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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Bob…thank you for addressing my questions; you wrote: | Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
If your desire is to exploit the great bargains in COTS alternators, get one from your local Smiley Jack's Autoparts Emporium and plan on modifying for external regulation and ABSOLUTE CREW CONTROL OF the machine's output which INCLUDES AUTOMATIC OV PROTECTION.
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As I think I mentioned, my engine came with the 55 amp. Denso alternator…having it is not the result of my seeking great bargains in COTS alternators. I do recall reading on the topic of OV protection (without really understanding), and the topic has come up because of what I’m learning about LiFePO4 batteries and their sensitivity to voltage spikes. So thank you for bringing the issue front and center.
I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified “for external regulation and absolute crew control of the machine’s output which includes automatic OV protection.
Fred
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1924
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:26 pm Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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| Quote: | As I think I mentioned, my engine came with the 55 amp. Denso alternatorhaving it is not the result of my seeking great bargains in COTS alternators. I do recall reading on the topic of OV protection (without really understanding), and the topic has come up because of what I’m learning about LiFePO4 batteries and their sensitivity to voltage spikes. So thank you for bringing the issue front and center.
|
Good show. LiFePO4 batteries with battery management
systems are no more 'sensitive to spikes' than any
SLVA battery. That's what the BMS is for. Also,
the term 'spike' is never defined in terms of amplitude,
duration, waveshape and/or source impedance.
The DC supply of ALL vehicles is rife with NOISE of
various characterizations. 99.9% of people who
look at plots of those noises are inclined to
say, "Hey Martha . . . lookit all those spikes".
Keep in mind that people who are competing in the
lithium cranking battery market are striving to
make their product just as plug-n-play as they
can for replacing SLVA. When assessing suitability
of a marriage between your airplane and any
LiFePO4 product . . . check the engineering system
integration data sheet where limits are spelled
out in measurable physical quantities. The term
'spike' is not measurable and should be ignored
unless accompanied with detailed explanation.
I've not found any reason to be concerned about
dropping LiFePO4 products into a legacy SVLA
slot and adjusting the regulator for 14.2 volts.
| Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified “for external regulation and absolute crew control of the machine’s output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that
document but as Joe cited, here are some
excellent resources on the 'net. Keep
us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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Thanks Bob…so many rabbit holes…
And Thanks Graeme for the ref. to the Kitplanes article…just the ticket, though I’d never imagined myself opening the innards of an alternator.
Best,
Fred | Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified âfor external regulation and absolute crew control of the machineâs output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that document but as Joe cited, here are some excellent resources on the 'net. Keep us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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And thank you Joe G. as well !!
*****
Thanks Bob…so many rabbit holes…
And Thanks Graeme for the ref. to the Kitplanes article…just the ticket, though I’d never imagined myself opening the innards of an alternator.
Best,
Fred | Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified âfor external regulation and absolute crew control of the machineâs output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that document but as Joe cited, here are some excellent resources on the 'net. Keep us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
|
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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And thank you Joe G. as well !!
*****
Thanks Bob…so many rabbit holes…
And Thanks Graeme for the ref. to the Kitplanes article…just the ticket, though I’d never imagined myself opening the innards of an alternator.
Best,
Fred | Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified âfor external regulation and absolute crew control of the machineâs output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that document but as Joe cited, here are some excellent resources on the 'net. Keep us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:39 am Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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For some unknown reason, my replies are not getting posted on the AeroElectric-list…here’s one more try, F..
*****
Thanks Bob…so many rabbit holes…
And Thanks Graeme and Joe G. for the ref. to the Kitplanes article…just the ticket, though I’d never imagined myself opening the innards of an alternator.
Best,
Fred
| Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | | As I think I mentioned, my engine came with the 55 amp. Denso alternator
having it is not the result of my seeking great bargains in COTS alternators. I do recall reading on the topic of OV protection (without really understanding), and the topic has come up because of what Iâm learning about LiFePO4 batteries and their sensitivity to voltage spikes. So thank you for bringing the issue front and center. |
Good show. LiFePO4 batteries with battery management systems are no more 'sensitive to spikes' than any SLVA battery. That's what the BMS is for. Also, the term 'spike' is never defined in terms of amplitude, duration, waveshape and/or source impedance. The DC supply of ALL vehicles is rife with NOISE of various characterizations. 99.9% of people who look at plots of those noises are inclined to say, "Hey Martha . . . lookit all those spikes". Keep in mind that people who are competing in the lithium cranking battery market are striving to make their product just as plug-n-play as they can for replacing SLVA. When assessing suitability of a marriage between your airplane and any LiFePO4 product . . . check the engineering system integration data sheet where limits are spelled out in measurable physical quantities. The term 'spike' is not measurable and should be ignored unless accompanied with detailed explanation. I've not found any reason to be concerned about dropping LiFePO4 products into a legacy SVLA slot and adjusting the regulator for 14.2 volts. | Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified âfor external regulation and absolute crew control of the machineâs output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that document but as Joe cited, here are some excellent resources on the 'net. Keep us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Ceengland
Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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I think they're showing up on the list. I see any original post I make to the Matronics lists, but for some reason, they do not show me my responses to others' posts. However, if I click on the 'view message online' link, I can see that my post came through.
FWIW,
Charlie
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 2:48 PM fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com) <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | For some unknown reason, my replies are not getting posted on the AeroElectric-list…here’s one more try, F..
*****
Thanks Bob…so many rabbit holes…
And Thanks Graeme and Joe G. for the ref. to the Kitplanes article…just the ticket, though I’d never imagined myself opening the innards of an alternator.
Best,
Fred
| Quote: | On Oct 17, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | As I think I mentioned, my engine came with the 55 amp. Denso alternator…having it is not the result of my seeking great bargains in COTS alternators. I do recall reading on the topic of OV protection (without really understanding), and the topic has come up because of what I’m learning about LiFePO4 batteries and their sensitivity to voltage spikes. So thank you for bringing the issue front and center.
|
Good show. LiFePO4 batteries with battery management
systems are no more 'sensitive to spikes' than any
SLVA battery. That's what the BMS is for. Also,
the term 'spike' is never defined in terms of amplitude,
duration, waveshape and/or source impedance.
The DC supply of ALL vehicles is rife with NOISE of
various characterizations. 99.9% of people who
look at plots of those noises are inclined to
say, "Hey Martha . . . lookit all those spikes".
Keep in mind that people who are competing in the
lithium cranking battery market are striving to
make their product just as plug-n-play as they
can for replacing SLVA. When assessing suitability
of a marriage between your airplane and any
LiFePO4 product . . . check the engineering system
integration data sheet where limits are spelled
out in measurable physical quantities. The term
'spike' is not measurable and should be ignored
unless accompanied with detailed explanation.
I've not found any reason to be concerned about
dropping LiFePO4 products into a legacy SVLA
slot and adjusting the regulator for 14.2 volts.
| Quote: | | I trust that consuting my AeroElectric Connection will reveal just how this alternator can be modified “for external regulation and absolute crew control of the machine’s output which includes automatic OV protection. |
No, too many variables to cover in that
document but as Joe cited, here are some
excellent resources on the 'net. Keep
us apprised of your progress and potholes.
Bob . . .
|
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Charlie |
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1924
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: an Alternator Load Dump...?... |
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Your posts are showing up, 3 yesterday and 1 today.
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Joe Gores |
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