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strobe noise

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arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: strobe noise

I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag landing lights.  I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.  However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes, wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon.  Any ideas.  All shielding according to installation instructions.  One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs to the circuit breakers powering these lights.  But what difference does the engine running make?  Any ideas.



Looking forward to your reply,

Bernie

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: strobe noise

When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.

When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.

If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?

Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?

_________________
Joe Gores

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Joe, 

Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator grounding. 



Thanks

Bernie



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.

 When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.

 If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?

 Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498802#498802

Ceengland

Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:27 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Might also be useful to 'visualize' the ground paths from the various appliances back to the bat neg, your audio devices ground paths back to bat neg, and the ground paths for the regulator & alternator (engine ground wire) back to bat neg. If any of the noise producers (alt, any 'switcher' type LED supplies, etc) share a ground path with your audio  gear....

Charlie

On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 4:07 PM Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)>

 Joe, 

 Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator grounding. 

 Thanks

 Bernie

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 > 

 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 > 

 > When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.

 > When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.

 > If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?

 > Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?

 > 

 > --------

 > Joe Gores

  	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]

_________________
Charlie

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: strobe noise

Is the alternator "B" lead of adequate size and are its connections clean and tight?

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject: strobe noise

At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>



 I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag

 landing lights.  I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.

 However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes,

 wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon. 	


   When you say 'noise', how would you describe

   it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes

   pitch with engine rpm?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Any ideas.  All shielding according to installation instructions. 	


  Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the

  symptoms you've described.



  	  Quote: 	
		  One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs

 to the circuit breakers powering these lights. 	


  Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also

  and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause. 



  	  Quote: 	
		  But what difference does the engine running make? 	


  I suspect alternator noise which can't happen

  if the alternator is not putting out power.

  Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator

  OFF with the engine still running?



  If you shut all the new systems off and bring

  them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return

  for any combination of functional/non-functional

  systems?



  What kind of airplane, engine and alternator?



  Wired per any of the z-figures?



 

 

   Bob . . .

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: strobe noise

Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days. 



It is a 1956 G Bonanza. Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet. I did found 

an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead. Older radios are grounded to various unknown places. The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven’t tried Turing off the alternator with the engine running. Hope to get to it tomorrow. In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?

Bernie



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 13, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



  At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>



 I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag

 landing lights.  I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.

 However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes,

 wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon. 	


   When you say 'noise', how would you describe

   it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes

   pitch with engine rpm?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Any ideas.  All shielding according to installation instructions. 	


  Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the

  symptoms you've described.



  	  Quote: 	
		  One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs

 to the circuit breakers powering these lights. 	


  Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also

  and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause. 



  	  Quote: 	
		  But what difference does the engine running make? 	


  I suspect alternator noise which can't happen

  if the alternator is not putting out power.

  Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator

  OFF with the engine still running?



  If you shut all the new systems off and bring

  them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return

  for any combination of functional/non-functional

  systems?



  What kind of airplane, engine and alternator?



  Wired per any of the z-figures?



 

 

   Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:04 am Post subject: Re: strobe noise

Usually the negative wire needs to be the same size as the positive wire.  The  exception is when

the negative current has another path to ground, for instance through mounting brackets.

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:22 pm Post subject: strobe noise

At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days. 



 It is a 1956 G Bonanza. 	


   Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are

   renowned for high resistance airframes which

   are fertilizer for ground loop issues.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The

 pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet. 	




   Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they

   rise and fall with alternator rpm?



  	  Quote: 	
		  I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded

 to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead. 	


   . . . all this happens behind the cabin?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.

 The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with

 the engine running. 	


   This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise

   is unique to the alternator and will go

   away with the alternator off. Where is

   the battery in this airplane?



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator? 	


   alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's

   the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator

   ground is never root cause of the constellation of

   symptoms you've listed.



 

   Bob . . .

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:35 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Hello GuysMade some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this point. 

Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator. 

Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on both ends. Any other suggestions?

Thanks Bernie



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



  At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days. 



 It is a 1956 G Bonanza. 	


   Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are

   renowned for high resistance airframes which

   are fertilizer for ground loop issues.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The

 pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet. 	




   Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they

   rise and fall with alternator rpm?



  	  Quote: 	
		  I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded

 to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead. 	


   . . . all this happens behind the cabin?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.

 The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with

 the engine running. 	


   This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise

   is unique to the alternator and will go

   away with the alternator off. Where is

   the battery in this airplane?



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator? 	


   alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's

   the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator

   ground is never root cause of the constellation of

   symptoms you've listed.



 

   Bob . . .

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Just thought of some others things to try to isolate the noise source. With all the avionics on each one was turned off and on one at a time. No noise change

Changed phone plug from intercom Jack to aux jack that’s wired direct to the com through the audio panel, noise remains

Audio panel off, no change noise remains

Changed volume on ADF, KX155, intercom, no change in the Volume of LED based cyclic noise

The only way to eliminate the noise is to disable the alternator. 

I can Check the integrity of the connection to the buss and the alternator B. What else should be checked?

Bernie



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 16, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Hello GuysMade some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this point. 

Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator. 

Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on both ends. Any other suggestions?

Thanks Bernie



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



  At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days. 



 It is a 1956 G Bonanza. 	


   Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are

   renowned for high resistance airframes which

   are fertilizer for ground loop issues.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The

 pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet. 	




   Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they

   rise and fall with alternator rpm?



  	  Quote: 	
		  I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded

 to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead. 	


   . . . all this happens behind the cabin?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.

 The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with

 the engine running. 	


   This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise

   is unique to the alternator and will go

   away with the alternator off. Where is

   the battery in this airplane?



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator? 	


   alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's

   the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator

   ground is never root cause of the constellation of

   symptoms you've listed.



 

   Bob . . .

finn.usa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Try to trace the path from the alternator case to the negative       terminal of the battery.     

Ground strap between engine and airframe?     

As Bob pointed out, that old airframe may not provide a good       ground path. If possible, temporarily for testing, a good size       wire from alternator to battery negative terminal.     

Perhaps another way of looking at it: is the ground path to the       radio in any way carrying a current between alternator and battery       ground?

          Finn

     

     On 10/17/2020 12:47 AM, Bernie wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                Just thought of some others things to try to isolate the noise       source.        With all the avionics on each one was turned off and on one         at a time. No noise change

       Changed phone plug from intercom Jack to aux jack that’s         wired direct to the com through the audio panel, noise remains

       Audio panel off, no change noise remains

       Changed volume on ADF, KX155, intercom, no change in the         Volume of LED based cyclic noise

       

       

       The only way to eliminate the noise is to disable the         alternator. 

       

       

       I can Check the integrity of the connection to the buss and         the alternator B. What else should be checked?

       

       

       Bernie

         

         Sent from my iPhone

         

            	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 16, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Bernie             <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com) wrote:

             

                                                Hello Guys             Made some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and               wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power               installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall               battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this               point. 

             

             

             Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the               alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator. 

             

             

             Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on               both ends. Any other suggestions?

             

             

             Thanks Bernie

               

               Sent from my iPhone

               

                  	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM,                   Robert L. Nuckolls, III                   <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) wrote:

                   

                                                     At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:

                                       	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks to all of you for the                       quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a                       couple days.                       

                       

                       It is a 1956 G Bonanza. 	
                   

                     Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are

                     renowned for high resistance airframes which

                     are fertilizer for ground loop issues.

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		  Plane power                       alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an                       alternating ping/hum.                       The

                       pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum.                       The LED beacon is                       quiet. 	
                   

                   

                     Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they

                     rise and fall with alternator rpm?

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		  I did found an                       empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the                       above elec. devices are                       grounded

                       to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a                       bulkhead. 	
                   

                     . . . all this happens behind the cabin?

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		  Older radios are                       grounded to various unknown places.

                     The noise goes away when I                       shut down the engine but                       haven't tried Turing off the alternator with

                       the engine running. 	
                   

                     This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise

                     is unique to the alternator and will go

                     away with the alternator off. Where is

                     the battery in this airplane?

                   

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		  In the mean time                       would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the                       alternator? 	
                   

                     alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's

                     the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator

                     ground is never root cause of the constellation of

                     symptoms you've listed.

                   

                                        

                         Bob . . .                                        

               	
             

           

         	
       

     	
     

     	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:04 pm Post subject: strobe noise

Continuing to work the strobe noise dilemma in the old Bonanza.  The latest was an awg 8 wire from an alternator mounting bolt to the negative post of the battery..Perhaps the strobe noise is a little less but the wig wag wing lights are just as noisy.  The strobes ground to the grounding forest but the wig wags are to the airframe.  I think my next step is to move their ground to the grounding forest.  This may have nothing to do with the problem but perhaps is worth mentioning.  The original landing lights were PAR 46 incandescent.  I made a minor alteration and changed them to PAR 36 LED with no noise.  The noise occurred when I went to PAR 46 LED.  I used the same wiring for both size LED Bulbs.  Perhaps the extra current for the larger light is part of the problem.  Again the noise doesn’t change with alternator speed or radio on or off.  



Please continue to share your ideas.



Thanks,

Bernie



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 14, 2020, at 09:04, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Usually the negative wire needs to be the same size as the positive wire.  The  exception is when

 the negative current has another path to ground, for instance through mounting brackets.

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498821#498821

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: strobe noise

Try increasing size of the alternator "B" lead to see if that helps.

_________________
Joe Gores

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