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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Su |
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The Dynon transponder gets its altitude information from the ADAHRS
unit. That means you need the full Dynon system turned on, not just the
transponder. Apparently you are getting your GPS information from a
certified GPS, which has to connect to the Dynon via ARINC-429 interface
box. I've been flying with the -261 transponder for 5 years with no
problems. In fact last airborne report there were no errors. I have dual
ADAHRS, and GTN-650 providing GPS data.
Any chance of a problem with the coax from the -261 to the antenna?
Does the antenna have appropriate ground plain?
On 3/2/2021 4:52 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
The static test technician is coming back to the airpark tomorrow so can
someone PLEASE help me troubleshoot a failed test transponder? I also
posted this same request on the Dynon forum hoping to get a troubleshooting
answer tonight.
I tried to get a pitot static test today and the system failed the
transponder Mode S interrogations received component of the test. He was
using the Tol-Instruments T-48 MODE S/ATCRBS TRANSPONDER RAMP TEST SET. He
said that the test set was receiving between 65 to 100 percent of the
interrogations and the device reports the lowest number as the result and
anything less than 90 percent is considered a fail so my system got a 65
percent.
After the fail I switched the antenna from the transponder to the ADS-B
antenna and the result was the same so it seems that the antenna was not at
fault.
The technician had me switch it to Mode A and he used a different test kit
called a AV-17 AVIONICS TESTER and the mode A and Mode C system worked great
with 100 percent replies received however when he uses the T-48 MODE S
tester the same problem.
The transponder is the Dynon -261 unit.
The setup shows the following:
ON-LINE HW22.03 FW01.02 SW02.11
USA 91.227 COMPLIANT NO
GPS DATA (OFFLINE) GARMIN ADS-B/ADS-B+
PRESSURE ALTITUDE OK SKYVIEW
TAIL NUMBER shows my N-Number
TRANSPONDER HEX CODE A0088C
ADS-B IN FREQ (BOTH SV-ADSB-472)
TIS TRAFFIC is ON
What troubleshooting steps should I take now? How do I determine if it is a
programming issue or cable or the unit???
He is coming back to the airport tomorrow so if it is something that I can
reprogram of fix please let me know.
THANKS
Bill
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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cluros(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Su |
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Bill either you are not reporting the problem correctly or your tech isn't familiar with doing these tests on mode S transponders. The 90% figure leads me to believe that the test you are failing is the suppression test. If this is the case, here is the applicable section of PARTÂ 43 Appendix F ATC Transponder Tests and Inspections:
(b) Suppression: When Classes 1B, 2A, 3A, and 4 Mode S transponders are interrogated at a rate between 230 and 1,200 Mode 3/A interrogations per second:
(2) Verify that the transponder replies to at least 90 percent of ATCRBS interrogations when the amplitude of the P2 pulse is 9 dB less than the P1 pulse. If the test is conducted with a radiated test signal, the interrogation rate shall be 235 ±5 interrogations per second unless a higher rate has been approved for the test equipment used at that location.
As you can see, the suppression test is a mode A test, not mode C or mode S. If the AV-17 is showing a 100% reply rate with P2 set 9dB less than P1, your transponder passes the suppression test and that's the end of it. A failed suppression test could not have anything to do with your transponder setup. If we want to assume for argument's sake that you are indeed failing the suppression test and your tech is competent with both the requirements and his equipment, then I would try a different antenna, a different coax, and then ship the unit back to Dynon.
If you were in a hangar, pull the aircraft outside to prevent reflected signals from buggering up your data. Lastly, when doing these tests make sure that the Dynon setup has the auto ON/OFF mode disabled to ensure that you can turn everything on standing still.
Regards,
Sebastien
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 3:58 PM <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)>
The static test technician is coming back to the airpark tomorrow so can
someone PLEASE help me troubleshoot a failed test transponder? I also
posted this same request on the Dynon forum hoping to get a troubleshooting
answer tonight.
I tried to get a pitot static test today and the system failed the
transponder Mode S interrogations received component of the test. He was
using the Tol-Instruments T-48 MODE S/ATCRBS TRANSPONDER RAMP TEST SET. He
said that the test set was receiving between 65 to 100 percent of the
interrogations and the device reports the lowest number as the result and
anything less than 90 percent is considered a fail so my system got a 65
percent.
After the fail I switched the antenna from the transponder to the ADS-B
antenna and the result was the same so it seems that the antenna was not at
fault.
The technician had me switch it to Mode A and he used a different test kit
called a AV-17 AVIONICS TESTER and the mode A and Mode C system worked great
with 100 percent replies received however when he uses the T-48 MODE S
tester the same problem.
The transponder is the Dynon -261 unit.
The setup shows the following:
ON-LINE HW22.03 FW01.02 SW02.11
USA 91.227 COMPLIANT NO
GPS DATA (OFFLINE) GARMIN ADS-B/ADS-B+
PRESSURE ALTITUDE OK SKYVIEW
TAIL NUMBER shows my N-Number
TRANSPONDER HEX CODE A0088C
ADS-B IN FREQ (BOTH SV-ADSB-472)
TIS TRAFFIC is ON
What troubleshooting steps should I take now? How do I determine if it is a
programming issue or cable or the unit???
He is coming back to the airport tomorrow so if it is something that I can
reprogram of fix please let me know.
THANKS
Bill
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billhuntersemail(at)GMAIL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Su |
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Sebastien.  Very good information!!!
| Quote: | If you were in a hangar, pull the aircraft outside to prevent reflected signals from buggering up your data.
|
Good idea
| Quote: | Lastly, when doing these tests make sure that the Dynon setup has the auto ON/OFF mode disabled to ensure that you can turn everything on standing still.
|
That was done
| Quote: | The Dynon transponder gets its altitude information from the ADAHRS unit. That means you need the full Dynon system turned on, not just the transponder.
|
Yes all of the avionics equipment was operating
| Quote: | Apparently you are getting your GPS information from a certified GPS, which has to connect to the Dynon via ARINC-429 interface box…I have dual ADAHRS, and GTN-650 providing GPS data.
|
I have the exact same setup.
| Quote: | Any chance of a problem with the coax from the -261 to the antenna?
|
That is possible but the cable appears to be in good shape. I will research how to test a coax cable.
The ADS and transponder are installed side by side so perhaps I can swap the coax cables and do the test to see if the problem follows???
| Quote: | Does the antenna have appropriate ground plain?
|
Yes both the transponder and ADS-B antennae have the appropriate sized ground plain.
Thanks Kelly for the information
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Sebastien
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:26 PM
To: aeroelectric-l. <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Suggestions Please
Bill either you are not reporting the problem correctly or your tech isn't familiar with doing these tests on mode S transponders. The 90% figure leads me to believe that the test you are failing is the suppression test. If this is the case, here is the applicable section of PART 43 Appendix F ATC Transponder Tests and Inspections:
(b) Suppression: When Classes 1B, 2A, 3A, and 4 Mode S transponders are interrogated at a rate between 230 and 1,200 Mode 3/A interrogations per second:
(2) Verify that the transponder replies to at least 90 percent of ATCRBS interrogations when the amplitude of the P2 pulse is 9 dB less than the P1 pulse. If the test is conducted with a radiated test signal, the interrogation rate shall be 235 ±5 interrogations per second unless a higher rate has been approved for the test equipment used at that location.
As you can see, the suppression test is a mode A test, not mode C or mode S. If the AV-17 is showing a 100% reply rate with P2 set 9dB less than P1, your transponder passes the suppression test and that's the end of it. A failed suppression test could not have anything to do with your transponder setup. If we want to assume for argument's sake that you are indeed failing the suppression test and your tech is competent with both the requirements and his equipment, then I would try a different antenna, a different coax, and then ship the unit back to Dynon.
If you were in a hangar, pull the aircraft outside to prevent reflected signals from buggering up your data. Lastly, when doing these tests make sure that the Dynon setup has the auto ON/OFF mode disabled to ensure that you can turn everything on standing still.
Regards,
Sebastien
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 3:58 PM <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)>
The static test technician is coming back to the airpark tomorrow so can
someone PLEASE help me troubleshoot a failed test transponder? I also
posted this same request on the Dynon forum hoping to get a troubleshooting
answer tonight.
I tried to get a pitot static test today and the system failed the
transponder Mode S interrogations received component of the test. He was
using the Tol-Instruments T-48 MODE S/ATCRBS TRANSPONDER RAMP TEST SET. He
said that the test set was receiving between 65 to 100 percent of the
interrogations and the device reports the lowest number as the result and
anything less than 90 percent is considered a fail so my system got a 65
percent.
After the fail I switched the antenna from the transponder to the ADS-B
antenna and the result was the same so it seems that the antenna was not at
fault.
The technician had me switch it to Mode A and he used a different test kit
called a AV-17 AVIONICS TESTER and the mode A and Mode C system worked great
with 100 percent replies received however when he uses the T-48 MODE S
tester the same problem.
The transponder is the Dynon -261 unit.
The setup shows the following:
ON-LINE HW22.03 FW01.02 SW02.11
USA 91.227 COMPLIANT NO
GPS DATA (OFFLINE) GARMIN ADS-B/ADS-B+
PRESSURE ALTITUDE OK SKYVIEW
TAIL NUMBER shows my N-Number
TRANSPONDER HEX CODE A0088C
ADS-B IN FREQ (BOTH SV-ADSB-472)
TIS TRAFFIC is ON
What troubleshooting steps should I take now? How do I determine if it is a
programming issue or cable or the unit???
He is coming back to the airport tomorrow so if it is something that I can
reprogram of fix please let me know.
THANKS
Bill
===========
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
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johnbright
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Location: Newport News, VA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:15 am Post subject: Re: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshootin |
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| billhuntersemail(at)GMAIL wrote: | | ... The ADS and transponder are installed side by side... |
How close is "side by side"? Are you referring to the antennas when you say "side by side?
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_________________
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Su |
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Hey everybody…you can uncross your fingers and toes!!!
The transponder passed!!!
The only thing that I did different was to program the Skyview to get its GPS data from the Skyview GPS as opposed to the GARMIN GTN-650 and I pulled the CBs for the Garmin so that way the automotive style 10 amp battery charger would keep the volts on the bus about 13.3 volts…with the Garmin up and running it draws a fair amount of zaps and the voltage on the bus was more like 12.3 volts and Dynon Tech Support said that 12.4 volts was the minimum they would like to see to have the transponder work properly…
Thanks again for your help!!!
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Sebastien
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:26 PM
To: aeroelectric-l. <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: URGENT REQUEST Transponder Test Failed...Troubleshooting Suggestions Please
Bill either you are not reporting the problem correctly or your tech isn't familiar with doing these tests on mode S transponders. The 90% figure leads me to believe that the test you are failing is the suppression test. If this is the case, here is the applicable section of PART 43 Appendix F ATC Transponder Tests and Inspections:
(b) Suppression: When Classes 1B, 2A, 3A, and 4 Mode S transponders are interrogated at a rate between 230 and 1,200 Mode 3/A interrogations per second:
(2) Verify that the transponder replies to at least 90 percent of ATCRBS interrogations when the amplitude of the P2 pulse is 9 dB less than the P1 pulse. If the test is conducted with a radiated test signal, the interrogation rate shall be 235 ±5 interrogations per second unless a higher rate has been approved for the test equipment used at that location.
As you can see, the suppression test is a mode A test, not mode C or mode S. If the AV-17 is showing a 100% reply rate with P2 set 9dB less than P1, your transponder passes the suppression test and that's the end of it. A failed suppression test could not have anything to do with your transponder setup. If we want to assume for argument's sake that you are indeed failing the suppression test and your tech is competent with both the requirements and his equipment, then I would try a different antenna, a different coax, and then ship the unit back to Dynon.
If you were in a hangar, pull the aircraft outside to prevent reflected signals from buggering up your data. Lastly, when doing these tests make sure that the Dynon setup has the auto ON/OFF mode disabled to ensure that you can turn everything on standing still.
Regards,
Sebastien
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 3:58 PM <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)>
The static test technician is coming back to the airpark tomorrow so can
someone PLEASE help me troubleshoot a failed test transponder? I also
posted this same request on the Dynon forum hoping to get a troubleshooting
answer tonight.
I tried to get a pitot static test today and the system failed the
transponder Mode S interrogations received component of the test. He was
using the Tol-Instruments T-48 MODE S/ATCRBS TRANSPONDER RAMP TEST SET. He
said that the test set was receiving between 65 to 100 percent of the
interrogations and the device reports the lowest number as the result and
anything less than 90 percent is considered a fail so my system got a 65
percent.
After the fail I switched the antenna from the transponder to the ADS-B
antenna and the result was the same so it seems that the antenna was not at
fault.
The technician had me switch it to Mode A and he used a different test kit
called a AV-17 AVIONICS TESTER and the mode A and Mode C system worked great
with 100 percent replies received however when he uses the T-48 MODE S
tester the same problem.
The transponder is the Dynon -261 unit.
The setup shows the following:
ON-LINE HW22.03 FW01.02 SW02.11
USA 91.227 COMPLIANT NO
GPS DATA (OFFLINE) GARMIN ADS-B/ADS-B+
PRESSURE ALTITUDE OK SKYVIEW
TAIL NUMBER shows my N-Number
TRANSPONDER HEX CODE A0088C
ADS-B IN FREQ (BOTH SV-ADSB-472)
TIS TRAFFIC is ON
What troubleshooting steps should I take now? How do I determine if it is a
programming issue or cable or the unit???
He is coming back to the airport tomorrow so if it is something that I can
reprogram of fix please let me know.
THANKS
Bill
===========
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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