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Milspec wire followup: PTFE vs ETFE

 
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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 386
Location: MS
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject: Milspec wire followup: PTFE vs ETFE Reply with quote
Question for Bob N. or others who've used a lot of milspec wire:
I'm aware of the obvious differences between PTFE & ETFE; 'P' has higher temp rating but tends to 'cold flow'. I
I'm pretty sure I've encountered PTFE in pre-built harnesses from some avionics mfgrs, based on the way the insulation strips, vs known-ETFE wire I have on hand. If we install with reasonable care, is there any reason to fear using PTFE for wiring throughout the airframe?
Thanks,
Charlie

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:37 am    Post subject: Milspec wire followup: PTFE vs ETFE Reply with quote
At 11:22 AM 3/10/2021, you wrote:
Quote:
Question for Bob N. or others who've used a lot of milspec wire:
I'm aware of the obvious differences between PTFE & ETFE; 'P' has higher temp rating but tends to 'cold flow'. I

I'm pretty sure I've encountered PTFE in pre-built harnesses from some avionics mfgrs, based on the way the insulation strips, vs known-ETFE wire I have on hand. If we install with reasonable care, is there any reason to fear using PTFE for wiring throughout the airframe?

PTFE (Teflon) is not 'more' desirable than ETFE (Tefzel) and
it has some downsides.

Greg Richter and I had some lengthy discussions on this
about 17 years back after I reviewed his "Wiring for Smart People"
publication.

https://tinyurl.com/qxvr6nx

I'm aware of no manufacturer that uses Teflon
for general airframe wiring. Of perhaps 30000
feet of wire I have in inventory, I don't think
there is a hundred feet of Teflon.

Here's a copy of the Wire Bible which was
updated on the website this morning. This is
a searchable pdf file that will allow you to
quickly identify about any wire product by
specification.

https://tinyurl.com/ydgacclw

Having said that, Teflon is not 'evil'. If you
got a heck of a deal on some I would not discourage
it's use in avionics harnesses but it's kinda
finicky to strip.

https://tinyurl.com/bol9x2n





Bob . . .

Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"

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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 386
Location: MS
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Milspec wire followup: PTFE vs ETFE Reply with quote
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:48 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 11:22 AM 3/10/2021, you wrote:
Quote:
Question for Bob N. or others who've used a lot of milspec wire:
I'm aware of the obvious differences between PTFE & ETFE; 'P' has higher temp rating but tends to 'cold flow'. I

I'm pretty sure I've encountered PTFE in pre-built harnesses from some avionics mfgrs, based on the way the insulation strips, vs known-ETFE wire I have on hand. If we install with reasonable care, is there any reason to fear using PTFE for wiring throughout the airframe?

   PTFE (Teflon) is not 'more' desirable than ETFE (Tefzel) and
   it has some downsides.

   Greg Richter and I had some lengthy discussions on this
   about 17 years back after I reviewed his "Wiring for Smart People"
   publication.

https://tinyurl.com/qxvr6nx

   I'm aware of no manufacturer that uses Teflon
   for general airframe wiring. Of perhaps 30000
   feet of wire I have in inventory, I don't think
   there is a hundred feet of Teflon.

   Here's a copy of the Wire Bible which was
   updated on the website this morning. This is
   a searchable pdf file that will allow you to
   quickly identify about any wire product by
   specification.

https://tinyurl.com/ydgacclw

   Having said that, Teflon is not 'evil'. If you
   got a heck of a deal on some I would not discourage
   it's use in avionics harnesses but it's kinda
   finicky to strip.

https://tinyurl.com/bol9x2n





  Bob . . .

I'd agree that P is less desirable than E, because I'm not concerned about extreme temp ratings and had minor concern about cold flow. I had spotted a 'deal' on about 1K ft of P (IIRC, it was ID'd as M22759/9), but then found the same quantity of E (M22759/16) for about a penny more per foot. Not a big enough price delta for the hassle. 
Many thanks for the info; if I run across some P with a bigger price delta in the future, I may well add some to my 'inventory'.
Charlie

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Milspec wire followup: PTFE vs ETFE Reply with quote
I was building a plastic plane.  At sun-n-fun I while back ago, I bought wire from aren't vendor.  It was labeled 20-3 uninsulated and was bundle in 100 ft rolls.  Now I am building an rv7a and have some left over.  Is there a way to tell if the wire I have is ok for use in airplane?  Coating on wire is smooth and shiny and wire looks to be coated.  Should I run.p and get fresh wire from spruce?

Thanks
Another  Bob K.
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 11:59 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:


On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:48 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 11:22 AM 3/10/2021, you wrote:
Quote:
Question for Bob N. or others who've used a lot of milspec wire:
I'm aware of the obvious differences between PTFE & ETFE; 'P' has higher temp rating but tends to 'cold flow'. I

I'm pretty sure I've encountered PTFE in pre-built harnesses from some avionics mfgrs, based on the way the insulation strips, vs known-ETFE wire I have on hand. If we install with reasonable care, is there any reason to fear using PTFE for wiring throughout the airframe?

   PTFE (Teflon) is not 'more' desirable than ETFE (Tefzel) and
   it has some downsides.

   Greg Richter and I had some lengthy discussions on this
   about 17 years back after I reviewed his "Wiring for Smart People"
   publication.

https://tinyurl.com/qxvr6nx

   I'm aware of no manufacturer that uses Teflon
   for general airframe wiring. Of perhaps 30000
   feet of wire I have in inventory, I don't think
   there is a hundred feet of Teflon.

   Here's a copy of the Wire Bible which was
   updated on the website this morning. This is
   a searchable pdf file that will allow you to
   quickly identify about any wire product by
   specification.

https://tinyurl.com/ydgacclw

   Having said that, Teflon is not 'evil'. If you
   got a heck of a deal on some I would not discourage
   it's use in avionics harnesses but it's kinda
   finicky to strip.

https://tinyurl.com/bol9x2n





  Bob . . .

I'd agree that P is less desirable than E, because I'm not concerned about extreme temp ratings and had minor concern about cold flow. I had spotted a 'deal' on about 1K ft of P (IIRC, it was ID'd as M22759/9), but then found the same quantity of E (M22759/16) for about a penny more per foot. Not a big enough price delta for the hassle. 
Many thanks for the info; if I run across some P with a bigger price delta in the future, I may well add some to my 'inventory'.
Charlie




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