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revenson3(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

I built Bob's "Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester".

 Â  

Somehow I got the impression the relay would 'drop' out and thus turn off the lamp and clock when the battery reached about 10V.  Â  But after re-reading "Battery Replacement: A Plan for Throwing in the Towel", that expectation is not written there.  Â  My experience has been that it turns off when the battery reaches about 4V.

 Â  

Odyssey Load Test Procedure and Reconditioning Procedures recommend ending the test at 10V.  Â  I've done this, but it requires my presence when the battery nears 10V.

Is there a way to modify this circuit so that it will 'turn off' when the battery reaches 10V?

Or, is there a commercially available tester that would load a battery at 4 amps and record the time required until the battery reaches 10V?



Roger.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Bob's Poor Man's Battery Tester http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf 

is supposed to shut off automatically at 10 volts.  Did you change any parts values?

Did you use a 10 volt zener?

_________________
Joe Gores

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Trouble shooting the battery tester:

Is the zener diode installed backwards?

If one end of the zener diode is disconnected, does the relay drop out?

If not, has the correct transistor been used?

Has the transistor been connected correctly?

_________________
Joe Gores

Eric Page

Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 245

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester

It sounds like your circuit may be shutting off at the natural dropout voltage of the relay, which suggests that full battery voltage is reaching the relay's coil.



In addition to Joe's suggestions, check that the Zener diode is actually a 10V device, and not something near 3V, and that it hasn't failed (diodes can fail short circuit).

revenson3(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:12 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Bought new resistors and 10V zener. Rewired carefully on a test board. This time it kicked off, but at a higher voltage than I wanted (12V).



The zener was a NTE5019A, 10.0V +/-5%, 1/2 watt. Isn't that more like +/-20%? Cost all of $0.79.

I'll go back Monday, see if I can get a +/-1% zener, and ask about a higher quality brand.

Thanks for your comments. One more question...does the wattage make a difference in this circuit?

Roger.Â 

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 9:23 PM Roger Evenson <revenson3(at)gmail.com (revenson3(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I built Bob's "Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester".

 Â  

Somehow I got the impression the relay would 'drop' out and thus turn off the lamp and clock when the battery reached about 10V.  Â  But after re-reading "Battery Replacement: A Plan for Throwing in the Towel", that expectation is not written there.  Â  My experience has been that it turns off when the battery reaches about 4V.

 Â  

Odyssey Load Test Procedure and Reconditioning Procedures recommend ending the test at 10V.  Â  I've done this, but it requires my presence when the battery nears 10V.

Is there a way to modify this circuit so that it will 'turn off' when the battery reaches 10V?

Or, is there a commercially available tester that would load a battery at 4 amps and record the time required until the battery reaches 10V?



Roger.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester

The problem is not the tolerance of the zener.

The resistors affect the dropout voltage too.

Try a 9 volt zener.  They are cheap.  Buy a few different values to experiment with.

Wattage does not affect the circuit very much.  1/2 watt is good.

_________________
Joe Gores

charlesdavis(at)iuncapped
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:02 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

You may have better luck getting 2x5v 1% zeners than a 10v 1% - just 

wire them in series



Charles

On 31/01/21 03:10 am, Roger Evenson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bought new resistors and 10V zener. Rewired carefully on a test board. 

 This time it kicked off, but at a higher voltage than I wanted (12V).



 The zener was a NTE5019A, 10.0V +/-5%, 1/2 watt. Isn't that more like 

 +/-20%? Cost all of $0.79.



 I'll go back Monday, see if I can get a +/-1% zener, and ask about a 

 higher quality brand.



 Thanks for your comments. One more question...does the wattage make a 

 difference in this circuit?

 Roger.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dick Tasker <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com>



 Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V or 5.1V.



 The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual dropout current of the relay as well.Â  The less current it takes to hold in the relay, the lower the voltage it drops out at.Â  And conversely, the higher the current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher the voltage it drops out at. 	


   My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that 

   article years ago for just problems you're wrestling

   with. I sat down today and finished an update that I

   started some time ago.



  https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t



   The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision

   adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is

   calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,

   1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the

   zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a potentiometer

   to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.



   Either technique yields a predictable and stable

   set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,

   please forgive my tardiness.



   I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated

   battery test option in the form of West Mountain

   Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery

   testers.



  https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9



   The one I have right now is probably the 4th

   in a series that I've owned over the last 20

   years, give or take. They are versatile and

   accurate.



   But for most of our brother's need to peek

   into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,

   the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of

   excellent value.



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Bob,

Is that the correct symbol for the 1N4001?  Is it a zener?





-Jeff

                  

                                                                    On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 08:24:34 PM PST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                   At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dick Tasker <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com>



 Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V or 5.1V.



 The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual dropout current of the relay as well.Ã‚  The less current it takes to hold in the relay, the lower the voltage it drops out at.Ã‚  And conversely, the higher the current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher the voltage it drops out at. 	


   My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that 

   article years ago for just problems you're wrestling

   with. I sat down today and finished an update that I

   started some time ago.



  https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t



   The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision

   adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is

   calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,

   1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the

   zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a potentiometer

   to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.



   Either technique yields a predictable and stable

   set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,

   please forgive my tardiness.



   I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated

   battery test option in the form of West Mountain

   Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery

   testers.



  https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9



   The one I have right now is probably the 4th

   in a series that I've owned over the last 20

   years, give or take. They are versatile and

   accurate.



   But for most of our brother's need to peek

   into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,

   the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of

   excellent value.



 

    Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:28 pm Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

and do you need the second 470 ohm resistor between the transistor base & the LM431?





-Jeff

                  

                                                                    On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 10:18:10 PM PST, Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                 

         Bob,



Is that the correct symbol for the 1N4001?  Is it a zener?

-Jeff



                  

                                                                    On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 08:24:34 PM PST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:                 

                 

                 

                   At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dick Tasker <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com> Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V or 5.1V. The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual dropout current of the relay as well.Ã‚  The less current it takes to hold in the relay, the lower the voltage it drops out at.Ã‚  And conversely, the higher the current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher the voltage it drops out at. 	
   My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that    article years ago for just problems you're wrestling   with. I sat down today and finished an update that I   started some time ago.  https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t   The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision   adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is   calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,   1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the   zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a potentiometer   to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.   Either technique yields a predictable and stable   set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,   please forgive my tardiness.   I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated   battery test option in the form of West Mountain   Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery   testers.  https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9   The one I have right now is probably the 4th   in a series that I've owned over the last 20   years, give or take. They are versatile and   accurate.   But for most of our brother's need to peek   into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,   the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of   excellent value. 

    Bob . . .   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane   out of that stuff?"

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:26 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

I just use a 12 volt automotive inverter to drive 120 volt lamps as a 

load.  The cigarette lighter inverters that I have automatically shut 

down right around 10 volts input.  Close enough for me.

Ken



On 31/01/2021 11:09 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:

> 

> <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com>

>

> Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V or 5.1V.

>

> The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual dropout current of 

> the relay as well.Â  The less current it takes to hold in the relay, 

> the lower the voltage it drops out at.Â  And conversely, the higher 

> the current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher the voltage it 

> drops out at.



   My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that

   article years ago for just problems you're wrestling

   with. I sat down today and finished an update that I

   started some time ago.



 https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t <https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t>



   The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision

   adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is

   calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,

   1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the

   zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a potentiometer

   to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.



   Either technique yields a predictable and stable

   set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,

   please forgive my tardiness.



   I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated

   battery test option in the form of West Mountain

   Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery

   testers.



 https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9 <https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9>



   The one I have right now is probably the 4th

   in a series that I've owned over the last 20

   years, give or take. They are versatile and

   accurate.



   But for most of our brother's need to peek

   into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,

   the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of

   excellent value.



   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Bob, clocks that run off from 120 VAC are rare. 

I suggest that the AC clock be replaced by a 1.5 volt battery operated clock.

Some experimenters might prefer to power a Mini Quartz Clock Movement

by the 12 volt battery that is being tested (with voltage reduced to 1.5)

The clock and relay and circuit board could all be contained in one enclosure.

_________________
Joe Gores

rd2(at)dejazzd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

How about a (readily available) AC hour meter? Admittedly, it could give up to 1/10 (6 min) less reading.

Rumen



---

n233ee(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

I wonder if something like this would be useful?

https://www.mpja.com/02-01-21.asp?r=326752&s=39



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jan 31, 2021, at 10:20 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



ï»¿  At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dick Tasker <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com>



 Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V or 5.1V.



 The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual dropout current of the relay as well.Ã‚  The less current it takes to hold in the relay, the lower the voltage it drops out at.Ã‚  And conversely, the higher the current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher the voltage it drops out at. 	


   My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that 

   article years ago for just problems you're wrestling

   with. I sat down today and finished an update that I

   started some time ago.



  https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t



   The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision

   adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is

   calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,

   1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the

   zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a potentiometer

   to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.



   Either technique yields a predictable and stable

   set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,

   please forgive my tardiness.



   I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated

   battery test option in the form of West Mountain

   Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery

   testers.



  https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9



   The one I have right now is probably the 4th

   in a series that I've owned over the last 20

   years, give or take. They are versatile and

   accurate.



   But for most of our brother's need to peek

   into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,

   the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of

   excellent value.



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

charlesdavis(at)iuncapped
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:56 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Bob     

Is it right that the clock only runs when the battery is charging       ?     

Charles     



          On 01/02/21 08:18 am, Jeff Luckey       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Bob,

         

         

         Is that the correct symbol           for the 1N4001?Â  Is it a zener?

         

         

         

         

         -Jeff

         

         

       

                            On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 08:24:34 PM PST, Robert L.             Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) wrote: 

           

           

           

           

                                                        At 10:24 AM 1/31/2021, you wrote:

                    	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message                     posted by: Dick Tasker                     <dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com> (dick(at)thetaskerfamily.com)

                     

                     Unfortunately they don't make 5V zeners - only 4.7V                     or 5.1V.

                     

                     The turnoff voltage is also affected by the actual                     dropout current of the                     relay as well.Ã‚Â  The less current it takes to hold                     in the relay, the                     lower the voltage it drops out at.Ã‚Â  And conversely,                     the higher the                     current it takes to hold the relay on, the higher                     the voltage it drops                     out at. 	
                   

                   Â  My apologies guys . . . I intended to update that 

                   Â  article years ago for just problems you're wrestling

                   Â  with. I sat down today and finished an update that I

                   Â  started some time ago.

                   

                                        https://tinyurl.com/y44wl64t

                   

                   Â  The 'sloppy' zener is replaced with a precision

                   Â  adjustable zener. The test set's trip point is

                   Â  calibrated by one of two methods. Use precision,

                   Â  1% resistors to bias up the reference port of the

                   Â  zener -OR- you can use 5% resistors and a                   potentiometer

                   Â  to fabricate an adjustable trip point feature.

                   

                   Â  Either technique yields a predictable and stable

                   Â  set point for disconnecting the test load. Again,

                   Â  please forgive my tardiness.

                   

                   Â  I'll also remind readers of a sophisticated

                   Â  battery test option in the form of West Mountain

                   Â  Radio's CBA series, computer driven battery

                   Â  testers.

                   

                                        https://tinyurl.com/mas7ea9

                   

                   Â  The one I have right now is probably the 4th

                   Â  in a series that I've owned over the last 20

                   Â  years, give or take. They are versatile and

                   Â  accurate.

                   

                   Â  But for most of our brother's need to peek

                   Â  into Conditions for Continued Airworthiness,

                   Â  the Po' Man's battery-runner-downer is of

                   Â  excellent value.

                   

                                  

 Â  Bob . . .

                     

                     Â  Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If                     black                     boxes

                     Â  survive crashes, why don't they make the whole                     airplane

                     Â  out of that stuff?"

rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:04 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

Joe, 

 

A mere 50 years, we all had one of these clocks on our bedside night stand. Walmart still sells them.

 

Roger

 

From: user9253 (fransew(at)gmail.com)

Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 9:05 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Poor Man's Battery Tester



 

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>

 

Bob, clocks that run off from 120 VAC are rare. 

I suggest that the AC clock be replaced by a 1.5 volt battery operated clock.

Some experimenters might prefer to power a Mini Quartz Clock Movement

by the 12 volt battery that is being tested (with voltage reduced to 1.5)

The clock and relay and circuit board could all be contained in one enclosure.

 

--------

Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

Read this topic online here:

 

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500490#500490

 

 

 

 

 

<= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

At 08:55 AM 2/1/2021, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob



 Is it right that the clock only runs when the battery is charging ? 	


    discharging



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

At 08:49 AM 2/1/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I wonder if something like this would be useful?



  https://www.mpja.com/02-01-21.asp?r=326752&s=39 	


   Absolutely. Good eye!



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

At 08:29 AM 2/1/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2 <rd2(at)dejazzd.com>



 How about a (readily available) AC hour meter? Admittedly, it could give up to 1/10 (6 min) less reading.

 Rumen 	


   Sure . . . unless the meter is resetable to zero,

   you would have to calculate the discharge time

   but yes, as a timekeeping device it would be

   a good candidate.



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Poor Man's Battery Tester

At 08:01 AM 2/1/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 Bob, clocks that run off from 120 VAC are rare. 

 I suggest that the AC clock be replaced by a 1.5 volt battery operated clock.

 Some experimenters might prefer to power a Mini Quartz Clock Movement

 by the 12 volt battery that is being tested (with voltage reduced to 1.5)

 The clock and relay and circuit board could all be contained in one enclosure. 	


    How do you start/stop the thing without it

    going brain dead? 



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

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