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Radio or Television Tower Buzz

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mike>bentley

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower. 



Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

_________________
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

What is happening is that the high power from the towers is exciting one 

of the oscillators in one of your radios. What is most common, 

especially with older 121.5 ELTs is for their transmit oscillator to be 

activated by the high power RF from the towers, generating a weak white 

noise signal that breaks squelch on your com radio. I used to have that 

problem with a previous aircraft, where there are about 15 high power 

towers on a mountain a few miles south of the Phoenix Class B and in 

line with the VFR transition through the Class B. Communications with 

approach control while flying that transition would become very 

difficult. Newer 121.5 ELTs and 406 ELTs are better shielded for that.

Also, moving a com antenna from top of fuselage to belly can help 

isolate the ELT from the com antenna.



On 5/20/2018 8:38 AM, mike&gt;bentley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

 

 Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

 

 --------

 Mike Bentley

 Joplin, MO

 N5498B

 Kitfox Model 4-1200

 Jabiru 2200  #438

 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads

 Prince Prop (64 x 34)

 Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480245#480245

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

mike>bentley

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

Thanks Kelli,



I have a 406mhz elt with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage and comm antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. The elt antenna is approximately 18" below and 12" forward of the comm antenna. The elt antenna is much easier to relocate than the comm. Would moving the elt antenna farther away help?

_________________
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

On 5/20/2018 10:33 AM, mike&gt;bentley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.



 Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?



 --------

 Mike Bentley

 Joplin, MO

 N5498B

 Kitfox Model 4-1200

 Jabiru 2200  #438

 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads

 Prince Prop (64 x 34)

 Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

Flying within 1/4 mile of a tower? My solution would be the He Haw (TV 
	


show, for uninitiated) solution: 'If it hurts when you do that, don't do 

that!' Especially in the case of towers, just don't do that.



Charlie

(Your issue is not an uncommon problem within a few miles of high power 

transmitters, as someone else has said.)



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mike>bentley

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

We have several towers in the vicinity of our airport. It can be occasionally annoying depending on the direction you're going to or coming from.

_________________
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:43 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

Mike:

Very Interesting....

Our plane radios transmit and receive in AM.

TV video is AM while their audio is FM.

AM land based radio shows are at a frequency well, well below our aviation frequencies.

So...Â  Something else must be happening if you are receiving and Hearing Voices.

I can understand static and buzzing, just not the voices?

Start Simple and work up from their.Â  Simple:

Check the GROUNDS on your radios and antennas.Â  You CANNOT check Grounds by LQQKing at them.Â  You MUST open the connection, Clean the connection and replace or ADD (if missing) an Internal Star Washer, then Tighten the connection.

Getting a bit more complicated you can build a Band Pass Filter.Â  This would work if the interference was a few harmonics away from from our frequencies.

If you can:

Drive to the radio/TV stations and bring a Hand Held aviation radio and see if you can hear them when right next to them.

You - May even talk to the station engineer.Â  And as a last resort, report the station to the FCC. BUT Only if your test with the Hand Held proves true.

Barry





On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 11:33 AM, mike&gt;bentley <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)>

 

 When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower. 

 

 Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

 

 --------

 Mike Bentley

 Joplin, MO

 N5498B

 Kitfox Model 4-1200

 Jabiru 2200Â  #438

 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads

 Prince Prop (64 x 34)

 Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480244#480244

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

I don't know if you would gain improvement or not, but generally I like 

to have at least 2 ft between com antennas, more if I can get it. The 

ELT is in same frequency spectrum as com, so interaction is mostly a 

function of distance. Before doing anything, the easy test is to simply 

disconnect the antenna cable from the ELT and go fly near the offending 

towers. You will know right away if the problem is reduced or not. Your 

com radio(s) may be interfered with independent of the ELT. Most 

broadcast towers are close in frequency, either below or above the com 

frequency band.



On 5/20/2018 9:15 AM, mike&gt;bentley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Thanks Kelly,

 

 I have a 406mhz elt with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage and comm antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. The elt antenna is approximately 18" below and 12" forward of the comm antenna. The elt antenna is much easier to relocate than the comm. Would moving the elt antenna farther away help?

 

 --------

 Mike Bentley

 Joplin, MO

 N5498B

 Kitfox Model 4-1200

 Jabiru 2200  #438

 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads

 Prince Prop (64 x 34)

 Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480249#480249

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

At 10:33 AM 5/20/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com>



 When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower. 



 Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue? 	


   Seen this and similar situations many times

   in the past. Powerful transmitters are strong

   potential interference sources. Effects are

   many and varied.  Used to rent a Beech B77

   at Mid Continent that would treat me to a

   'buzz' in the headsets while awaiting clearance

   at the south end of 1R. The hold pad was about 100 yards

   from the ATC antenna dish. Every time the antenna

   swept around, you'd hear a buzz-burst at the

   PRF for the radar transmitter. Sometimes you

   hear a similar buzz-burst from a transponder

   reply when the antenna coax shield is broken

   and the leakage is radiating the cabin.



   Another rental a/p would drift off track

   if my LOC intercept path took me past the

   television stations antenna farm NW of

   KICT. After passage, the a/p would recover

   and correctly nail the intercept.



   Those transmitters have really BIG radiated

   power numbers . . . sometimes 200,000 watts.

   Since the effects are inversely proportional

   to square of distance from the source, they

   usually go away if you're more than a couple

   miles from the antenna.



   Best fix . . . fly around it . . . or simply

   be aware of it and turn the volume down until

   you are past it.



 

 

   Bob . . .

mike>bentley

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back. 



Thanks again.

_________________
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

At 10:05 AM 5/21/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com>



 Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back. 	


   Interference of this type is not

   a consistent manifestation.  Characteristics

   of the victim and propagation modes can

   be significantly different even in

   apparently identical aircraft.



   The Hawkers had features in their annunciation

   sensing and response systems that were grand-fathered

   over from some rather arcane technology and design

   philosophies.  A polite way of suggesting every

   ship had dozens of potential victims designed

   to be problem children.



   In spite of obvious vulnerabilities, the

   percentage of problem children was relatively

   low . . . but a pain in the what's-it to

   fix . . . and every fix was a band-aid.

   The fact that you're a solitary observer

   of the problem cited is not unusual. Further,

   fixing the problem COULD be time consuming

   and expensive . . . been there and done

   that on more than one program!



   As long as the effects do not present a

   safety of flight condition, I suggest

   that further investigation is more

   academic than practical . . . but we

   would like to hear what you discover.  



 

 

   Bob . . .

echristley(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:30 am Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

An easy thing to check.  I would get horrible feedback whenever I keyed my mic.  One day I turned down the volume control on my headset (and up on the intercom for the same net volume), and the problem went away.

But, it's like Bob said.  You're picking up interference on some part of the circuit and then it is getting amplified.  The solution is chasing down and shielding/attenuating the interference from that ONE spot out of all the circuits.  Like me, you'll probably find the solution by accident some day.

 

    On Monday, May 21, 2018 11:07 AM, "mike>bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



  



 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)>



Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back. 



Thanks again.



--------



Mike Bentley



Joplin, MO



N5498B



Kitfox Model 4-1200



Jabiru 2200  #438



Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads



Prince Prop (64 x 34)



Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480274#480274



_-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



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t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

mike>bentley

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

Just an update. I rechecked all the grounds; antenna, radio, etc., made a larger ground plane (as big as I could fit under the antenna with radius just shy of the length of antenna), and tried a different coax from radio to antenna. My long distance transmission and reception is slightly better but and may have improved the interference some but it is still there. It does seem to be a characteristic of the vertically mounted antenna. I'll keep you posted if I discover anything else. 



Thanks for the suggestions.

_________________
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

ArnoldWilder
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz

Yep, interesting thread. I usually have the same issue while flying in the vicinity of radio towers. At first, I was a little bit scared because of the noises, but then I understood that it gives some kind of adrenaline. But if I want to hear some radio or podcasts, I usually download apps at apkdojo.com as they have such things as JioSaavn. It's nice to hear your favorite music or shows during the fly.

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