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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:01 pm Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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I must say that I get much reassurance from my grab-pads, microswitches, and 2 green LEDs on the panel to avoid this particular calamity:
[img]cid:F6F3343D-667A-4028-AD3B-DC7A265CE89F[/img]
[img]cid:C6285661-48FA-4173-83F2-96F9F32DD99F[/img]
[img]cid:4987561C-F556-453A-BB2D-3F753B03BAD5[/img]
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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John…thank you for your thoughtful analysis, summary, and invitation for discussion. | Quote: | On Jan 16, 2022, at 9:12 AM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net (john(at)wighton.net)> wrote:
In summary1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length.2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable.3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide.4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no dimensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no datum and may be open to misinterpretation.5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more accurate engagement of the shoot-bolt.6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long?Discuss…….
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I had no idea "that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable”…my having assumed that those shoot bolt ends, being a factory-supplied component, were identical and consistent.
I found the aluminum sleeves provided for the doorframes to be totally adequate; however, after reading reports of “galling” of the aluminum sleeves which are bonded to the airframe, I substituted teflon sleeves (identical in size and shape to the aluminum sleeves supplied with the kit) which I was able to source at McMaster-Carr.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but (up until now) I believed that the loss of doors in flight was due to the rear shoot bolt NOT being inserted in the rear sleeve of the airframe…rather…that the rear shoot bolt, as the latching mechanism moves to the closed position, extends OUTSIDE of the airframe, prevents proper sealing of the door, and results in aerodynamic forces which cause the door to depart.
If that is the case, any additional length of the rear shoot bolt (beyond that called for in the build manual) would have no effect.
In my particular aircraft, due to the resistance of the compressible door seal, I find that it is essential to be able to pull in the door at the same time that I am closing the latching mechanism.
Fred
A194
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Paul M 383
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:56 pm Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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"I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes into the doorframe moulding."
There is another bush (also called DL07) that goes in the door frame (they were supplied in the kit & I certainly fitted them):
"Shorten the shoot bolt guides <> through the door frame and, ...ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in ..."
... my emphasis.
HTH,
Paul
G-PLPM
-------- Original message --------
From: John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: 16/01/2022 17:15 (GMT+00:00)
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Following on from my last post I reacquainted myself with the build manual sections 34 and 35.
The part DL07 is the guide mounted in the door, this gives the shoot bolt an axis to follow - hence it needs to be aligned accurately such that DL06 (shoot bolt) and the operating rod DL11(F and R) do not bind.
Doing the above should ensure the shoot bolts protrude equally and follow a longitudinal axis.
Drilling and opening up the door-side holes is covered in manual 35. It states:
"In this step you will be cutting the holes in the door rebates to accept the shoot bolts, but first reinforce the area where the holes will be by applying 4 plies of ‘bid’ 30 mm x 30 mm at the back of the door rebates (unmoulded side).
Once this layup has fully cured apply a small dab of wet ink, or paint to the very end of the shoot-bolts. With the door fully pushed home, move the door handle towards the closed position until the end of the bolt strikes and, hopefully, leaves a witness mark on the door reveal.
This is your starting point; drill a 1/4" hole and then with a round file carefully open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in the door recess, so that when the shoot-bolts are fully extended, the doors are fully secured and flush with the outside of the fuselage. Use dabs of paint on
the shoot-bolt each time you want to enlarge the hole so that you can see which areas need filing. Shorten the shoot bolt guides so that they protrude only 10 - 12 mm (3/8" - ½") through the door frame and, ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in with Araldite 420 and flox."
I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes into the doorframe moulding. This could be CNC machined (or 3D printed in a durable material). The initial opening would 'collect' the DL06 shoot-bolt taper and guide it into the new bushing.
An enlarged flange on this new bushing could be made to act in a similar way to the UglyMod moulding - i.e. preventing the shoot-bolt from moving rearwards if misaligned.
In summary
1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length.
2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable.
3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide.
4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no dimensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no datum and may be open to misinterpretation.
5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more accurate engagement of the shoot-bolt.
6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long?
Discuss.......
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505690%23505690&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1441d2a34b30431d623d08d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779501304605065%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PLRv0DpQHJGzh%2B75ISZu5H3W5CUbPm7UWwBjIWTJroo%3D&reserved=0
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:19 pm Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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I had to request 4 extra DL07 from Europa factory. I think they are now included in the kit.
Sent from my iPhone
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Hom 03315166
| Quote: | On 17/01/2022, at 12:03, Paul Mansfield <europaul383(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
"I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes into the doorframe moulding."
There is another bush (also called DL07) that goes in the door frame (they were supplied in the kit & I certainly fitted them):
"Shorten the shoot bolt guides <> through the door frame and, ...ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in ..."
... my emphasis.
HTH,
Paul
G-PLPM
-------- Original message --------
From: John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: 16/01/2022 17:15 (GMT+00:00)
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Following on from my last post I reacquainted myself with the build manual sections 34 and 35.
The part DL07 is the guide mounted in the door, this gives the shoot bolt an axis to follow - hence it needs to be aligned accurately such that DL06 (shoot bolt) and the operating rod DL11(F and R) do not bind.
Doing the above should ensure the shoot bolts protrude equally and follow a longitudinal axis.
Drilling and opening up the door-side holes is covered in manual 35. It states:
"In this step you will be cutting the holes in the door rebates to accept the shoot bolts, but first reinforce the area where the holes will be by applying 4 plies of ‘bid’ 30 mm x 30 mm at the back of the door rebates (unmoulded side).
Once this layup has fully cured apply a small dab of wet ink, or paint to the very end of the shoot-bolts. With the door fully pushed home, move the door handle towards the closed position until the end of the bolt strikes and, hopefully, leaves a witness mark on the door reveal.
This is your starting point; drill a 1/4" hole and then with a round file carefully open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in the door recess, so that when the shoot-bolts are fully extended, the doors are fully secured and flush with the outside of the fuselage. Use dabs of paint on
the shoot-bolt each time you want to enlarge the hole so that you can see which areas need filing. Shorten the shoot bolt guides so that they protrude only 10 - 12 mm (3/8" - ½") through the door frame and, ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in with Araldite 420 and flox."
I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes into the doorframe moulding. This could be CNC machined (or 3D printed in a durable material). The initial opening would 'collect' the DL06 shoot-bolt taper and guide it into the new bushing.
An enlarged flange on this new bushing could be made to act in a similar way to the UglyMod moulding - i.e. preventing the shoot-bolt from moving rearwards if misaligned.
In summary
1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length.
2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable.
3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide.
4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no dimensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no datum and may be open to misinterpretation.
5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more accurate engagement of the shoot-bolt.
6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long?
Discuss.......
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505690%23505690&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1441d2a34b30431d623d08d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779501304605065%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PLRv0DpQHJGzh%2B75ISZu5H3W5CUbPm7UWwBjIWTJroo%3D&reserved=0
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:47 pm Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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| Quote: | >...ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in ..."
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I have seen several Europas with the aluminium guides DL07 installed in the door frames however, there were no such guides included in my kit and no mention whatsoever in my build manual. It appears the idea was introduced belatedly and I suspect with the introduction of the XS.
Since I have never had any problems with the shoot bolts, I have elected to let sleeping dogs lie.
Best regards
Kingsley in Oz
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:04 am Post subject: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
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…cute…you just can’t be too careful...
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