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Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

Well, sort of dumb question but I am loading my airplane for Triple Tree and I am doing the W&B. Since now I have the LR tank for the first time something struck me: If I factor in the 9.4 lbs of empty LR tank and 9.25 gallons (35 liters) of fuel at 56 lbs for a total 66 lbs then I only have 14 lbs before reaching the 80 lbs baggage limit.



So I would thing the 80 lbs weight limit is only on the aft shelf structure but wanted to hear the group's opinion. I would think Europa did it's homework when it came to the structure supporting a full LR tank.



For this trip I have 68.4 lbs of baggage (the tool pouch and tiedown sum 20 lbs). 



Total TO weight is 1139 lbs but I am aft CG limited. I am moving 33lbs of baggage to the passenger seat but I can only load max 5 gallons on the LR tank. Good thing I did the W&B.



Anyway, I digressed but I thought it would be a good warning to the group to check CG if using the LR tank. Duh. My original intended question was regarding the 80 lbs baggage limit, whether it included LR tank weight or not? Thoughts?



Best,

Chris

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

BTW, forgot to add that if my wife was with me I could place all the baggage in the back, fill the LR tank to the top and still have 27# left with CG within limit. 



Neat!



I do need a lighter tool pouch and tie downs though and gain a little payload. 



Chris

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:36 pm Post subject: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

Chris, I am away from my plane (actually in Connecticut) and all its paperwork so answering without relevant figures. I would suggest you could treat the long range tank as a separate item broadly. You could measure from its centre point to the firewall joggle to get its lever arm figure, which I suspect will be less than that given for luggage and if so this would give you extra leeway on putting a bit more luggage in without breaking COG limits. On the other hand it does sound as though your COG is inconveniently far back and it might be worth considering doing something to change that, like moving the battery to the engine compartment or getting a constant speed prop if either is applicable. Busting the rear COG limit is not to be recommended. An ideal COG allows loading with any combination of heavy or low pilot/passenger and luggage weights. Mine allows that. From memory I think it is around 60.5&rdquo; but could be wrong. 

Happy landings, David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 

 

On 2022-09-20 01:48, n7188u wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com (chmgarb(at)gmail.com)>Well, sort of dumb question but I am loading my airplane for Triple Tree and I am doing the W&B. Since now I have the LR tank for the first time something struck me: If I factor in the 9.4 lbs of empty LR tank and 9.25 gallons (35 liters) of fuel at 56 lbs for a total 66 lbs then I only have 14 lbs before reaching the 80 lbs baggage limit.So I would thing the 80 lbs weight limit is only on the aft shelf structure but wanted to hear the group's opinion. I would think Europa did it's homework when it came to the structure supporting a full LR tank.For this trip I have 68.4 lbs of baggage (the tool pouch and tiedown sum 20 lbs). Total TO weight is 1139 lbs but I am aft CG limited. I am moving 33lbs of baggage to the passenger seat but I can only load max 5 gallons on the LR tank. Good thing I did the W&B.Anyway, I digressed but I thought it would be a good warning to the group to check CG if using the LR tank. Duh. My original intended question was regarding the 80 lbs baggage limit, whether it included LR tank weight or not? Thoughts?Best,ChrisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507911#50bsp;--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=            &nbspf="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferf="http://wiki.matronics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferre========================https://matronics.com/c==================

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

Hi Chris,



We believe the 80 lb limit is for weight physically on the baggage bay flat surface due to structural limits (i.e. Jim couldn’t get the Mastiff Lab mix dog he wanted because it would have been too heavy to lie there!). 



For CG purposes, we split the baggage area into a station for the foot wells and a station for the baggage bay itself. We use 85 for the foot wells and 96 for the bay, while the original Europa CG calculation put both together with a single station midway between these. 



John Wigney gave us a spreadsheet which shows the change in CG as you burn fuel, and we modified as described above. Attached is the spreadsheet we use.



Jim & Heather

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N241BW CG Calc.xlsx

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

Thanks David and Jim for the replies. It is now clear to me that the 80 lb limit is strictly for the aft shelf in the XS.



David, I concur with you that some empty CG adjustment would help and will do that when I paint the airplane (which will surely shift the CG further aft).



I do have my battery at the firewall but it is very light so it doesn't do much in terms of fwd CG. I think my CG is a bit aft because my airplane has pretty much no avionics and minimalistic electrical system. My DUC prop is also light at only 9 lbs.



But it is easy for me to load the airplane and stay within max gross (I use 1370#) and published CG. But yes, it is also easy to exceed aft limit if not careful. 



I don't fly outside the published limits.



Chris

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:52 am Post subject: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

curious.... why is tha arm different for pilot/passenger?



On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 8:13 AM h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:



[quote] 



 Hi Chris,



 We believe the 80 lb limit is for weight physically on the baggage bay

 flat surface due to structural limits (i.e. Jim couldn’t get the Mastiff

 Lab mix dog he wanted because it would have been too heavy to lie there!)

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Baggage Weight Limit and LR Tank

Pete,



Heather is short so she has a second set of cushions that move her forward and raise her seat 3 inches.  



Jim & Heather

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