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fuselage fabric for Firestar

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jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:34 pm Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

I'm finishing up my tail feathers tonight (or hope to nearly finish up) and have laid out the fabric on my upside down fuselage. One piece of fabric 8' long by 72" wide looks like it will cover it all. Do I need to cut that fabric and glue it like the drawings, then try to piece the sides with the cut scraps from the one piece? Is it in the plans like that to use leftover scraps from other parts? It seems simpler to use 1 piece and be done but perhaps they want more glue joints to the frame?



Not sure which way to go. Anyone that's done a firestar, do you have any suggestions? I don't have anymore spare fabric.



Jay

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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:08 pm Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

One would think that if you have one piece big enough to do it all that 

would be the way to go.



Easier to install and fewer lap joints to come up later.



For the Firefly, I ordered two yards more they specified and didn't 

waste much. When I was done there was only about a yard left. Glad I got 

the extra up front.



I don't think the welded fuselage would care which technique you use. It 

is the only part of the airplane that I used full heat of 350 though.



On 1/28/23 19:33, Jay Dub wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm finishing up my tail feathers tonight (or hope to nearly finish up) and have laid out the fabric on my upside down fuselage. One piece of fabric 8' long by 72" wide looks like it will cover it all. Do I need to cut that fabric and glue it like the drawings, then try to piece the sides with the cut scraps from the one piece? Is it in the plans like that to use leftover scraps from other parts? It seems simpler to use 1 piece and be done but perhaps they want more glue joints to the frame?



 Not sure which way to go. Anyone that's done a firestar, do you have any suggestions? I don't have anymore spare fabric.



 Jay

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jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:58 pm Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

Hi Stuart,

I'm thinking the 1 piece makes it easy but in the back of my mind I wonder if the reason for it in the plans was because you have fabric glued around the bottom tubes. Next you have the fabric glued around the top tubes then you make your overlap. That gives you 2 spots you are anchored to tubes all the way around the perimeter: one high and one low. If I do one piece I will only anchor at the top. I don't know that it makes a difference so that's why I ask.



I was able to take the fabric up to 350F on my wings and 320F on everything else. I'll do 350F on the fuselage too as I can't see that distorting. At 320F my elevators bowed just a little bit but I was able to straighten them back.



When I was making a covering list, I looked over your website and saw you ordered 30 yards for a Firefly and I know the Firestar has longer wings and a longer fuselage. Aircraft Spruce had an ultralight estimate of 25 yds Uncertified light fabric, 3 rolls of 2" pinked tape, 1 roll of 3" pinked tape, plus all the Polyfiber stuff. By the time I ordered the material I knew I was going to do the weinerdogaero latex method so I didn't need to order polyfiber liquids. Anyhow I ordered 35 yards of Superflite 104 uncertified, 3 rolls of 2" tape (only used 1 1/2 of them), and I did use some of the 3" tape on the wings. You had about 1 yard left over. I am not short on my fabric but I also do not have any length left over, not even 6". Sure I have a box of cut scraps but they are all cut offs. I'm glad I was careful when laying out my parts as I almost was short. When I cut the fabric for one elevator I made a mistake and it was too long so there was a little extra scrap there.



Thanks for keeping your website up as that was a big help when I couldn't find any lists for how much a Firestar 2 needed.



Jay

 

 



Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 9:08 PM

From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: fuselage fabric for Firestar




One would think that if you have one piece big enough to do it all that

would be the way to go.



Easier to install and fewer lap joints to come up later.



For the Firefly, I ordered two yards more they specified and didn't

waste much. When I was done there was only about a yard left. Glad I got

the extra up front.



I don't think the welded fuselage would care which technique you use. It

is the only part of the airplane that I used full heat of 350 though.

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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:23 am Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

Think about it this way:



If you cover the bottom and wrap the tubes, that piece has extra 

adhesion on both edges. Then you put the sides on and wrap the top tube 

but have to lap joint at the bottom. That piece only has the extra 

adhesion at the one edge.



If you use one piece and wrap the tubes at all the edges, the entire 

piece has the extra adhesion.



I am quite sure that properly glued lap joints are just as secure as the 

wrapped edge, but if you don't have to mess with the lap you don't have 

as much to deal with when ironing flat and installing the tape. Plus it 

will go faster (maybe).



I probably could have gotten the fabric all the way to 350 if I had left 

it just a little more loose to start with. I was being extra careful not 

to have too much that 350 wouldn't properly tighten it.



I don't know if the Firestar uses heavier materials in the wings and 

tail feathers but the Firefly is pretty darned lightweight.



The covering was one of the most enjoyable parts to me. I like seeing 

the wrinkles come out and the final shape take place.



Glad the website helped. Sometimes I wonder if any one ever looks at it. 

I haven't done any updates in years. I really should work on getting the 

hangar/camper project photos added.

On 1/28/23 23:58, Jay Dub wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Stuart,

 I'm thinking the 1 piece makes it easy but in the back of my mind I wonder if the reason for it in the plans was because you have fabric glued around the bottom tubes. Next you have the fabric glued around the top tubes then you make your overlap. That gives you 2 spots you are anchored to tubes all the way around the perimeter: one high and one low. If I do one piece I will only anchor at the top. I don't know that it makes a difference so that's why I ask.



 I was able to take the fabric up to 350F on my wings and 320F on everything else. I'll do 350F on the fuselage too as I can't see that distorting. At 320F my elevators bowed just a little bit but I was able to straighten them back.



 When I was making a covering list, I looked over your website and saw you ordered 30 yards for a Firefly and I know the Firestar has longer wings and a longer fuselage. Aircraft Spruce had an ultralight estimate of 25 yds Uncertified light fabric, 3 rolls of 2" pinked tape, 1 roll of 3" pinked tape, plus all the Polyfiber stuff. By the time I ordered the material I knew I was going to do the weinerdogaero latex method so I didn't need to order polyfiber liquids. Anyhow I ordered 35 yards of Superflite 104 uncertified, 3 rolls of 2" tape (only used 1 1/2 of them), and I did use some of the 3" tape on the wings. You had about 1 yard left over. I am not short on my fabric but I also do not have any length left over, not even 6". Sure I have a box of cut scraps but they are all cut offs. I'm glad I was careful when laying out my parts as I almost was short. When I cut the fabric for one elevator I made a mistake and it was too long so there was a little extra scrap there.



 Thanks for keeping your website up as that was a big help when I couldn't find any lists for how much a Firestar 2 needed.



 Jay

   

   



 Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 9:08 PM

 From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: fuselage fabric for Firestar

 



 One would think that if you have one piece big enough to do it all that

 would be the way to go.



 Easier to install and fewer lap joints to come up later.



 For the Firefly, I ordered two yards more they specified and didn't

 waste much. When I was done there was only about a yard left. Glad I got

 the extra up front.



 I don't think the welded fuselage would care which technique you use. It

 is the only part of the airplane that I used full heat of 350 though.

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jaydub

Joined: 07 Jan 2020
Posts: 74

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:32 pm Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

Long story short, you can't do one piece of fabric for the Firestar fuselage. The compound curves and angles give you a bunch of fabric in the middle. I did per the plans. First, I marked a center line in 4 spots of the 72" fabric to center the fabric on the bottom stringer.  I then cut both sides off from the bottom. Then I wrapped and glued the bottom and shrunk it. Then I glued a tape down the center stringer on the bottom in case I land in some pasture with weeds.  I also got the left side nearly glued on.

 

It's hard to describe why you have to do it per the plans but that's the only way it will work for shrinking. Soooo....that answers that.

 

Jay

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: fuselage fabric for Firestar

Something to maybe save a little repair work down the road - note the red line I put on this pic - there is a diagonal brace that runs just under the fabric on my MKIII, from high rear to low in front, on the FSII, it runs from low rear to high in front.

After several years the pulses from the prop caused the paint to crack along that tube, and I had to cut some strips of cloth and lay alongside the tube inside the fuselage to stop the fabric from flexing, and then repair the outside. 

Depending on how that tube runs on the FF, (and on any other similar fuselage) maybe a little reinforcement while covering will save some aggravation later.

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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

mibear117(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:08 pm Post subject: fuselage fabric for Firestar

Hey Richard!

I sure enjoy all the input you give on many different topics. Thank you.



On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 11:15 PM Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>

 

 Something to maybe save a little repair work down the road - note the red line I put on this pic - there is a diagonal brace that runs just under the fabric on my MKIII, from high rear to low in front, on the FSII, it runs from low rear to high in front.

 After several years the pulses from the prop caused the paint to crack along that tube, and I had to cut some strips of cloth and lay alongside the tube inside the fuselage to stop the fabric from flexing, and then repair the outside. 

 Depending on how that tube runs on the FF, (and on any other similar fuselage) maybe a little reinforcement while covering will save some aggravation later.

 

 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 

 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

 

 

 

 

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