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How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:26 pm Post subject: How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

Hi Group

We have a Europa Fuel sender on our mono. We had UMA build a nice fuel gauge with warning for the 9 positions. Range is .4 ohms empty and 190.7 ohms when full.

I never quite understood how the 9 positions worked.

Bill Daniels was kind enough to send me his old fuel gauge and sender. I figured if mine failed I would have a spare. How easy! Well of course instead of building aeroplane tonight, I had to test it and make sure it was working well. NOT!! Ended up it wouldn't read much below 1/2 tank and had some flakiness going on on the way up to full, or down from full.

Can't have that. So managed to get it apart from the top and began troubleshooting. Think Applied Archaic Technology here, 1950s to be exact when you think of old original computer core memory. Well if it was good enough to get Apollo to the moon, it should be good enough to operate a Europoa Fuel gauge. But this one failed?

OK here's how Europa designed it: they used special reed switches with what I suspect has a magnetic polarity, then they put a ferrite core on the outside of the reed switch. Now when the float that has magnets passes by the reed switch on the way to empty, it latches the reed switch to close the contacts and it stays closed because the polarity of the ferrite core is opposite that of the reed switch! Then when it passes on the way up to full, it reverses the polarity of the ferrite core and the switch opens. Each reed switch has a resistor across the terminals. Thus when you start opening the reed switches, you start adding the resistance together.

OK now what happened:

It appears that a rapid epoxy was used to hold the ferrite core to the glass reed switch. The position of the ferrite core is incredibly critical. Ends up the rapid epoxy is not a good choice as it failed and a number of them slid down due to gravity and stopped latching.

I was able to tune them using a very mild magnet to get position optimized where they would easily latch and unlatch. Then when using the float magnets, they work really well. Instead of rapid epoxy, I used some non stink silicone to hold cores in position.

Bottom line it now works great and I figured out how the thing works and I now have a spare.

It seems unless who ever fabricated the fuel sender changed adhesive, they are at risk to go flaky.

Figured i would share.

Europa figured into the sender the shape of the fuel tank so they position the reed switches at 1/8 tank increments. When doing the repair I could see see the different spacing.

Ron P.

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Ceengland

Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:19 pm Post subject: How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

Nooooooooo! Before putting that thing back in the tank, put it in a jug of gas that *won't * go in the plane, for about a week. 



 I bet you'll find blobs of Silicone floating in the gas. 

 No Silicone around gasoline,  ever.

 Get BlueMail for Android 

 On Feb 10, 2023, at 9:26 PM, rparigoris <rparigor(at)hotmail.com (rparigor(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com>Hi GroupWe have a Europa Fuel sender on our mono. We had UMA build a nice fuel gauge with warning for the 9 positions. Range is .4 ohms empty and 190.7 ohms when full.I never quite understood how the 9 positions worked.Bill Daniels was kind enough to send me his old fuel gauge and sender. I figured if mine failed I would have a spare. How easy! Well of course instead of building aeroplane tonight, I had to test it and make sure it was working well. NOT!! Ended up it wouldn't read much below 1/2 tank and had some flakiness going on on the way up to full, or down from full.Can't have that. So managed to get it apart from the top and began troubleshooting. Think Applied Archaic Technology here, 1950s to be exact when you think of old original computer core memory. Well if it was good enough to get Apollo to the moon, it should be good enough to operate a Europoa Fuel gauge. But this one failed?OK here's how Europa designed it: they used special reed switches with what I suspect has a magnetic polarity, then they put a ferrite core on the outside of the reed switch. Now when the float that has magnets passes by the reed switch on the way to empty, it latches the reed switch to close the contacts and it stays closed because the polarity of the ferrite core is opposite that of the reed switch! Then when it passes on the way up to full, it reverses the polarity of the ferrite core and the switch opens. Each reed switch has a resistor across the terminals. Thus when you start opening the reed switches, you start adding the resistance together.OK now what happened:It appears that a rapid epoxy was used to hold the ferrite core to the glass reed switch. The position of the ferrite core is incredibly critical. Ends up the rapid epoxy is not a good choice as it failed and a number of them slid down due to gravity and stopped latching.I was able to tune them using a very mild magnet to get position optimized where they would easily latch and unlatch. Then when using the float magnets, they work really well. Instead of rapid epoxy, I used some non stink silicone to hold cores in position.Bottom line it now works great and I figured out how the thing works and I now have a spare.It seems unless who ever fabricated the fuel sender changed adhesive, they are at risk to go flaky.Figured i would share.Europa figured into the sender the shape of the fuel tank so they position the reed switches at 1/8 tank increments. When doing the repair I could see see the different spacing.Ron P.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51014/www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics --> https://matronics.com/contribution

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Charlie

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

Hi Charlie

Thx. for reply.

The reed switches with ferrite barrels, resistors and foam plug are inside a sealed Non-Magnetic Stainless thin wall tube. They will never see any fuel. The float that will see fuel tracks up and down the on the outside of the tube.

Ron P.

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: Re: How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

Hi Group



Wayne and I did a presentation for the Europa Group, figured would share.



Pretty interesting stuff!



Here's links to March 2023 Zoom Episode 5 about Fuel Sender Operation and Repair:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9Vgfx9spnrAw9ZaL5m7w?e=12nuwO



For whatever reason, Matronics always cuts off some of the hyper-link when I post links. Just copy the entire link and paste into URL of browser.



** If buffering occurs when viewing mp4 video, open the settings icon and reduce resolution. The settings icon is a gear with a hole in it located on bottom.



Ron and Wayne

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rv8iator

Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Newberg, OR

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: How reliable is a Europa fuel sender?

Thanks for the great video!   How far we've come!  Except for fuel senders...



Chris

RV-8 and others

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:37 AM rparigoris <rparigor(at)hotmail.com (rparigor(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com (rparigor(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Hi Group

 

 Wayne and I did a presentation for the Europa Group, figured would share.

 

 Pretty interesting stuff!

 

 Here's links to March 2023 Zoom Episode 5 about Fuel Sender Operation and Repair:

 [url=https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9Vgfx9spnrAw9ZaL5m7w?e=12nuwO]https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9Vgfx9spnrAw9ZaL5m7w?e=12nuwO[/url]

 

 For whatever reason, Matronics always cuts off some of the hyper-link when I post links. Just copy the entire link and paste into URL of browser.

 

 ** If buffering occurs when viewing mp4 video, open the settings icon and reduce resolution. The settings icon is a gear with a hole in it located on bottom.

 

 Ron and Wayne

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510419#510419

 

 

 

 

 

 

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