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84KF Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: 1550 lbs? Let's ask dad. and I rest my case. |
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One last original post on the topic.
Here is a good site (AOPA) to download the “Final Rule” in pdf format that will appear in Adobe just as it is in paper copy, including page numbers. I recommend it …, for what that’s worth….
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_faq.html
Let’s see what “The Man Himself” is doing…
Go here an check out these specifications:
http://kitfoxaircraft.com/SS%20Specs.htm
Fuel Capacity 27 Gallons Standard
Seats 2 - Side by Side
Baggage Capacity 150 lbs
Flight Load Limits +3.8g / -1.52
(+150% Safety Factor) Ultimate loads +6g / -3g
Empty Weight 750 lbs
Useful Load 800 Lbs
Cargo Area 10 ft³
Cargo Load 150 Lbs
Gross Weight
1320 on Gear
1430 on Floats
1550 optional gear
Read these also:
http://kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2
Does the Kitfox qualify for Light Sport Aircraft (LSA)?
Absolutely ! The current Kitfox can be operated at the 1320 lb gross weight when on gear and the 1420 lb gross when on floats. It can also be converted from floats, to skis, to tail wheel or to Tricycle gear.. Your choice.
What is the gross weight of a Kitfox?
The current Kitfox has been structurally tested at 1550 lbs gross weight at +6g and -3g Load Limit. With an empty weight of 750 lbs, it can easily be operated within the LSA limit of 1320 lb gross with a 570 lb or better useful load. Not concerned about LSA? Use the full 1550 lb gross weight limit and have an 800 lb useful load. (my italics)
Now,
The useful load of 570 is what is left for full fuel, 2 passengers, and the unspecified required baggage allowance (baggage) after you have a planned for an airframe\engine combined weight (empty weight, as used here) of 750 LBS. It’s a design consideration that anyone who is contemplating certification of SLSA and ELSA aircraft must consider. Do you want the aircraft to carry lot of fuel lbs or cargo\baggage lbs..
Since you need both seats filled, (2 x 180 = 360 lbs,
And say a 25lb baggage load you now have 380 lbs of weight in the aircraft
Add that to a projected empty weight of 750 lbs the total aircraft weight is 1135 lbs.
Subtract that from 1320 and you could have up to 185 lbs of fuel, (full tanks) which is around 30 US gals.. That Kitfox only has 27 gal. so the max possible fuel weight is 162 lbs.
“Maximum takeoff weight” is the sum of:
(1) Empty weight 750
(2) full seats 369
(3) Baggage 25
(4) Full fuel 162
Total 1297 lbs. Which is less than 1320 lbs “maximum takeoff weight“, hence it is eligible for sport pilot use.
You have now been directed to 2 excellent references where the term “maximum takeoff weight” is being properly, and legally, applied.
http://kitfoxaircraft.com/SS%20Specs.htm
And
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm
Notice the specifications for Empty Weight and Useful Load,
Empty Weight 750 lbs
Useful Load 800 Lbs
That totals ???? 1550lbs. The design max. weight
The lower gross weight is used for certification issues of ELSA and SLSA and the same aircraft would have a experimental-homebuilt AW cert. if it was “manufactured” (built) by someone under the 51% rule with up to 1550lb. max weight (or even greater) W&B paperwork. . The design limit is still 1550 lbs, and can safely and legally be flown up to that weight (with an experimental-homebuilt AW cert) under Private pilot privileges.
That gives this design a favorable and marketable flexibility that, unfortunately is not understood by, or properly communicated to, the flying community.
There are advantages and privileges associated with ELSA and SLSA which is a reason to have the aircraft certified as such. That is another story.
There is nothing wrong with the regulations, or the Final Rule, except for the complexity which is necessary to address all the issues and, if you read it, you will see that they (the FAA) actually apologize for that.
The intention and function of Final Rule:
14 CFR Parts 1, 21, et al.
Certification of Aircraft and Airmen for
the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft;
Final Rule
is to, and very effectively does,
1) regulate certification and maintenance of SLSA\ ESLA aircraft, sport pilots, and
(2) regulate the physical modification of aircraft with TCDS’s attempting to meet the definition of “maximum takeoff weight”.
We have made our own problems by referring to mis-information being published and proclaimed by those we trust and rely on to remain legal and stay informed.
I must repeat, there is nothing incorrect in the FAA Rules and Regulations, and I have never stated there is. It’s a beautiful and interesting piece of work if you start at the beginning and go with the flow…… quit trying to swim upstream.
Steve
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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84KF Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1550 lbs? Let's ask dad. and I rest my case. |
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Here is a link to CubCrafters.
Read the information from the site, but I have included it in the post to emphasize specific statements.
http://www.cubcrafters.com/sportcub/lsa.aspx
“When the Light Sport Aircraft rule finally passed on September 1st 2004, it had changed a bit from what we were expecting from previous reports. The gross weight went up from 1,220 lbs to 1,320 lbs., but the rule specified an empty weight with a reserve for fuel. The upshot of that provision, as specified by a formula in the certification standard, was that a 100 hp 2 place airplane weigh a maximum of 890 lbs.”
The certification standard they are referring to our friend, The Final Rule.
Federal Register
Certification of Aircraft and Airman for the Operation of Light-Sport aircraft; Final Rule. Dated July 27, 2004
You now have CubCrafters,
http://www.cubcrafters.com/sportcub/lsa.aspx
Van’s Aircraft
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm ,
And Kitfox Aircraft
http://kitfoxaircraft.com/SS%20Specs.htm
What left? The “since its original certification“, issue??
Has my aircraft been modified since it received it’s airworthiness certificate to meet the formula??
No. End of test.
That’s all the FAA is concerned about. You have just addressed a certification issue, not a limit to design efficiency. Quite the contrary, the “empty takeoff weight” increase included in the final rule is meant to increase R&R in the development of more efficient airframes\engines. The less lbs of (1)….., the more for (3) baggage, and (4) fuel. Icing on the cake.
The legality of, any rated pilot, using my Series 5, exercising sport pilot privileges, CANNOT be contested successfully. (in the context of the issue at hand. Don‘t try to rob a bank with it.) And why would it be? It’s allowed in the rules and regs.
Remember, the problem is not with the FAA itself, the rules or regulations. They are fine, and to our advantage it seems, It is the way that well meaning, but not 100% informed people and press, that we respect, trust, and sometimes, “comply” with, present the right information, but the wrong explanation.
Steve
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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