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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . |
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Steve so what you are saying is basically on a plane that can have a higher
gross eg 1550 but you register it at 1320 under LSA rules so you can fly
without a aviation medical then you are essentially limiting the legal gross
weight by the pilot's own limitations ?
If so what would this do for resale value? eg you have a plane that was
designed for higher but has been limited due to the original builder
limitations ?
Dave
PS Canada is working on a similar class right now.
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . |
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Dave, It is not the pilot that determines the max gross Wt., but the
manufacturer. check on N96KL and you will see me as the manufacturer of
this airplane. We as builders have some descretion on some of the
aircraft's specs. I have a friend who's IV is certified for aerobatics as
that was included in his test phase. No one cares who the pilot is short of
a ramp check or an accident and then it will be the FAA and your insurance
carrier in that order.
Regarding resale - it might help mightely if the prospective buyer is an old
codger at risk of losing his medical. consider the $70,000 factory LSA's
out there. It's a supply and demand thing. If there are 10 5-7s for sale
and one that is certified at 1320 max and that is what I am looking for, do
the math.
Lowell
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84KF
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. |
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No Dave,
I never said anything like that.
The word “register”? Do you mean, as in “registration“?
What do you mean “higher gross eg 1550 “ What is that?
Do you mean design weight? Or, perhaps, “maximum weight” as on a TCDS???
See, use the wrong words, ……
“Steve so what you are saying is basically on a plane that can have a higher gross eg 1550 but you register it at 1320 under LSA rules so you can fly without a aviation medical then you are essentially limiting the legal gross weight by the pilot's own limitations ?
No. Just the opposite. Why would you want to , or need to do, what you just suggested? As you see, this is one negative “effect” if you let someone convince you that it a 1550 design weight is not allowed in a LSA eligible aircraft. You stated my point exactly, just inverted and backwards. Thank you .
“what would this do for resale value?” Not much good eh?
I don‘t “say“ anything , the Big FAA guy with the official pen did though.
steve
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kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . |
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I have actually seen the price on some aircoups go up if they did not have
the stc for an increased gross weight because they are still sport pilot
qualified and the FAA has said that they will not allow the plane to be
changed back.
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84KF
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. |
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Dave,
The only “paperwork” you need to be concerned with is the W&B sheet, and that is where you take your aircraft empty weight number from,, and inset it into, the (1) of the official FAA formula for computing ”maximum takeoff weight“ . as defined, and apply that “sum” to the official definition of LSA in 1.1. This applies to ANY aircraft , Type certificated, or experimental.
The fact that no TC aircraft has a “maximum weight” on it’s TCDS greater than 1320 lbs is due partly in fact to …
1) That a Piper , Cessna, etc., when certificated and mfg’d under it‘s TCDS, has a FAA approved “maximum weight” ( on the TCDS) that equaled or was just less than the factory design weight. And why not? That’s fine.
2) while you may fly it to “maximum weight, it’s quite possible to overload it so as to exceed that limit. We are all familiar with this situation, Do I want more gas, or more cargo\passengers? Simple W&B problem ,as required..
3) take any TCDS aircraft check it for LSA weight eligibility …(1)+ (2) + (3) + (4), and you will see it is determined by the empty weight of the aircraft, found ONLY on it’s
personal W&B sheet, the size of it’s fuel tanks, (weight of full fuel) and the weight of any and all occupants (2 seats max, remember.) and their “baggage”. If the plane is on the FAA “list” rest assured, that you will exceed the “maximum takeoff weight” rule before, or at the same time you exceeded “TCDS operating limitation for “maximum weight” This is how the FAA determined the “list”. A formula, not paperwork design weight, or “TCDS maximum weight.
As I have shown, Kitfoxaircraft and Van’ Aircraft do the same.
“I have actually seen the price on some aircoups go up if they did not have the stc for an increased gross weight because they are still sport pilot qualified and the FAA has said that they will not allow the plane to be changed back.”
Absolutely right. You cannot modify existing aircraft, from as they are now, to meet the definition. Don’t try to change to small fuel tanks to reduce fuel weight for the “full fuel” clause, etc, etc. The FAA give it’s explanation for why not in the “Final Rule” and one can read that if they wish.
I’ll stop for now.
Steve
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