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Tom O'Hara
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Spent last weekend at Palm Beach (Lantana Field) attending the EAA Repairman LSA Inspection Rating Course (Airplane)
Course was taught by husband/wife Lisa Turner and Jerry Stautmiller. Jerry has been in aviation for 50 years and is A&P and is currently rebuilding Stearmans (17) to show quality. He is also Poly- Fiber distributor. Lisa has every qualification in the book-- Director of Training for Tyco, PhD, PE, 2 masters, has built two planes ( and has Kolb Mk III in progress- that made me feel good), on and on.
The course is excellent and I would recommend for all to attend. The end result is a FAA test and if passed an FAA rating to allow you to annually inspect an Experimental-LSA or Special LSA that you own.
There has been much talk on the board regarding vortex generators so when it came up in class regarding flight testing I perked up my ears. The FAA requires approval and Phase I testing for all modifications of a major change to "Operating Limitations"-- and this includes vortex generators. So if you are experimenting with VG's you should: notify FSDO or DAR, remain in test area (approved by FAA/DAR) for 5 hrs or agreed upon time, do not fly passengers, make detailed logbook enty upon completion and certify that aircraft is in compliance with 91.319b
Just some thoughts.
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wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Tom,
What about the course? Pretty intense?
What was the cost?
Chris Mallory
Do not archive
---
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Tom O'Hara
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Go to http://www.sportair.org/workshops/Repairman%20(LSA)%20Inspection-Airplane.html#TopOfPage
Price was $299 EAA member, $339 non-member. FAA requires 16 hour minimum so we worked late for two nights. Covered a lot of ground but very relaxed atmosphere. Two guys were from Lancair- so we even had more knowledge than Jerry/Lisa. Course was relaxed and test was typical FAA multiple choice of 50-- you needed 80%
I bought a Kolb- not built one so for me the course was invaluable. I felt weak in Kolb systems and Rotax powerplant. We covered everything from regs, control systems, rigging, safties, engines, inspection, covering-metal,fabric, and composites. Only area that the seminar was weak in was 2 stroke engines. So I will be picking brains at Sun-n-Fun. One reference manual that we used a lot was FAA AC43.13. Everyone should have it on a bookshelf-- to be gotten out often.
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dhkey(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Negative is you can not fly over densely popluated areas, the yellow part on
a sectional. That could become an issue where I live. 
| Quote: | From: "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com>
Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex
Generators
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:15:50 -0800
Go to
http://www.sportair.org/workshops/Repairman%20(LSA)%20Inspection-Airplane.html#TopOfPage
Price was $299 EAA member, $339 non-member. FAA requires 16 hour minimum
so we worked late for two nights. Covered a lot of ground but very relaxed
atmosphere. Two guys were from Lancair- so we even had more knowledge than
Jerry/Lisa. Course was relaxed and test was typical FAA multiple choice of
50-- you needed 80%
I bought a Kolb- not built one so for me the course was invaluable. I felt
weak in Kolb systems and Rotax powerplant. We covered everything from
regs, control systems, rigging, safties, engines, inspection,
covering-metal,fabric, and composites. Only area that the seminar was weak
in was 2 stroke engines. So I will be picking brains at Sun-n-Fun. One
reference manual that we used a lot was FAA AC43.13. Everyone should have
it on a bookshelf-- to be gotten out often.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7096#7096
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rlaird
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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The term, I believe, is "congested area" and, as far as I know, the
FAA never defines what that means. The yellow parts of a sectional,
from what I understand, are the light patterns you're likely to see at
night. And light patterns don't necessarily mean congested, so we're
stuck not really knowing what the FAA means. This, I've been lead to
believe, is by design so that they have the latitude to decide on a
case-by-case basis if you did anything wrong, in their eyes.
This reminds me of that old joke about, during your PPL training,
practicing emergency landings at night. The instructor says, as you
get closer to the ground, turn on your landing lights so you can see
what you're about to land on... if you don't like what you see, then
turn the lights off. 
-- Robert
On 1/26/06, David Key <dhkey(at)msn.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Negative is you can not fly over densely popluated areas, the yellow part on
a sectional. That could become an issue where I live.
>From: "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com>
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex
>Generators
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:15:50 -0800
>
>
>
>Go to
>http://www.sportair.org/workshops/Repairman%20(LSA)%20Inspection-Airplane.html#TopOfPage
>
>Price was $299 EAA member, $339 non-member. FAA requires 16 hour minimum
>so we worked late for two nights. Covered a lot of ground but very relaxed
>atmosphere. Two guys were from Lancair- so we even had more knowledge than
>Jerry/Lisa. Course was relaxed and test was typical FAA multiple choice of
>50-- you needed 80%
>
>I bought a Kolb- not built one so for me the course was invaluable. I felt
>weak in Kolb systems and Rotax powerplant. We covered everything from
>regs, control systems, rigging, safties, engines, inspection,
>covering-metal,fabric, and composites. Only area that the seminar was weak
>in was 2 stroke engines. So I will be picking brains at Sun-n-Fun. One
>reference manual that we used a lot was FAA AC43.13. Everyone should have
>it on a bookshelf-- to be gotten out often.
>
>
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7096#7096
>
>
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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com |
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dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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I was taught that the yellow parts were the congested areas... I searched
the net and you are right. There is no definition for congested areas, so
light patterns it is.
| Quote: | From: Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex
Generators
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:08:18 -0600
The term, I believe, is "congested area" and, as far as I know, the
FAA never defines what that means. The yellow parts of a sectional,
from what I understand, are the light patterns you're likely to see at
night. And light patterns don't necessarily mean congested, so we're
stuck not really knowing what the FAA means. This, I've been lead to
believe, is by design so that they have the latitude to decide on a
case-by-case basis if you did anything wrong, in their eyes.
This reminds me of that old joke about, during your PPL training,
practicing emergency landings at night. The instructor says, as you
get closer to the ground, turn on your landing lights so you can see
what you're about to land on... if you don't like what you see, then
turn the lights off.
-- Robert
On 1/26/06, David Key <dhkey(at)msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Negative is you can not fly over densely popluated areas, the yellow
part on
> a sectional. That could become an issue where I live.
>
>
> >From: "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com>
> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex
> >Generators
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:15:50 -0800
> >
> >
<tohara(at)alphagraphics.com>
> >
> >Go to
>
>http://www.sportair.org/workshops/Repairman%20(LSA)%20Inspection-Airplane.html#TopOfPage
> >
> >Price was $299 EAA member, $339 non-member. FAA requires 16 hour
minimum
> >so we worked late for two nights. Covered a lot of ground but very
relaxed
> >atmosphere. Two guys were from Lancair- so we even had more knowledge
than
> >Jerry/Lisa. Course was relaxed and test was typical FAA multiple
choice of
> >50-- you needed 80%
> >
> >I bought a Kolb- not built one so for me the course was invaluable. I
felt
> >weak in Kolb systems and Rotax powerplant. We covered everything from
> >regs, control systems, rigging, safties, engines, inspection,
> >covering-metal,fabric, and composites. Only area that the seminar was
weak
> >in was 2 stroke engines. So I will be picking brains at Sun-n-Fun.
One
> >reference manual that we used a lot was FAA AC43.13. Everyone should
have
> >it on a bookshelf-- to be gotten out often.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7096#7096
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Kolbers,
"... allow you to annually inspect an Experimental-LSA or Special LSA
that you own...."
This did not sound quite right to me so I asked EAA's Joe Norris and
got his response which confirms my suspicion that the Inspection rating
is good only for E-LSAs owned by the certificate holder, not S-LSAs
owned by the certificate holder. S-LSAs require the as yet non-existent
Maintenance rating or A&P ticket. See Joe's response below:
Thom in Buffalo
Hello Thom,
The LSA Repairman certificate with an inspection rating does not allow
the holder to perform condition inspections on aircraft certificated in
the Light-Sport Aircraft category (commonly called "Special LSA"). The
inspection rating will only allow the holder to perform condition
inspections on experimental LSA that he or she owns and that are listed
on the certificate. The regulatory citation is 14 CFR 65.107(b), which
states:
(b) The holder of a repairman certificate (light-sport aircraft) with
an inspection rating may perform the annual condition inspection on a
light-sport aircraft:
(1) That is owned by the holder;
(2) That has been issued an experimental certificate for operating a
light-sport aircraft under =A721.191(i) of this chapter; and
(3) That is in the same class of light-sport-aircraft for which the
holder has completed the training specified in paragraph (a)(2)(ii) of
this section.
This regulation clearly states, in item (b)(2), that the aircraft must
hold an airworthiness certificate issued under =A721.191(i), which is the
experimental certificate. Light-sport aircraft category (aka "special
light-sport") are issued under =A721.190, so the repairman certificate
with inspection rating won't apply to those aircraft.
Hope this helps! Let me know if you have further questions.
Joe Norris
EAA Aviation Services
EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI
888-322-4636, extension 6806
jnorris(at)eaa.org
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Congested area is indeed undefined in writing by the FAA(according to
the EAA experts on regulations) and therefore open to interpretation by
anyone and everyone.
I personally define congested area as any place littered with man made
objects that would make my forced landing a dangerous thing for me, the
property, and any unlucky folks that happen to be there at the time of
this event. This would at least conform to my interpretation of the
intent of the rule. Don't fly over something or someone who could get
hurt by your plane falling out of the sky or falling apart in the sky
and dropping stuff on them. So for me, suburban and urban areas are
all congested and illegal for flight over them in ULs. Wooded areas are
not "congested" by my definition but can hurt the pilot if you kiss a
tree too fast.
Thom in Buffalo
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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Ralph Hoover
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: EAA LSA Inspect. Rating Course and FAA/Vortex Generators |
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Hey! Trees have rights too ya know. Just cause there are trees that can't scream or can't afford to carry insurance. Well, They have rights too. So what is defined in the dictionary as congested? Thats what we have to deal with. Or lawyers. Simply put, they do talk about "events, gatherings, large populas" . Don't they. How about a little (ready for the phrase?) "common sence"!! (Mispessed on purpose). I know that if John H. were to respond, He probably just shake his shoulders and close his eyes and say what Christ said: 'Father, when will they learn, when"?
Some things just require that ya know that ya know. Stay away from crowds, shopping centers, traffic jams, large populated areas, things of "conjestion". Apparently most of the world doesn't have "country" to fly in. I realize that we need to get from point "A" to point "B", but if that requires areas of congestion, then go around, plan the plan, stick to the plan and realize that at times plans need to change.
Boy my blood pressure went way down from that one.
The good Ralph from Ohio
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